MikeDeason

After only a couple of weeks on my Alfine/Gates combo, I am sold on IGH's and belts. Very smooth and seamless shifting and I love being able to shift at traffic lights or any of the numerous stops on a city commute.

My wife wants a new bike now and I have proposed she take my Alfine 8/Gates while I look at upgrading to the Rohloff. A few more gears would be nice for my daily commute. She rides only occasionally for recreation so it's mutually agreed that I get the better bike and she gets the nicer car.

MikeDeason

All I can find is European availability. Nothing in CND or US

squirtdad

you should consider a bike with Pinion gearbox/drive

here is an example https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pro...gaAm7XEALw_wcB


https://pinion.eu/en/

MikeDeason

Yes! That looks ideal.

Not sure how I missed that type. I was stuck on searching Rohloff in Canada which doesn’t seem to exist

MikeDeason

I am tempted to order this bike but servicing the pinion may be an issue. There are no supporting Priority dealers in Canada. The dealer I bought the Alfine 8 from threw in the 1k km drain service and it's 3 k km after that which I may attempt. There are a few dealers near me that sell bikes with Alfines. Obviously, Rohloff would suffer the same servicing issues as Pinion unless I am missing a Rohloff or Pinion brand avail in Canada

veganbikes

Co-Motion makes stuff with Rohloff and any custom builder can do it. Tout Terrain also comes to mind and Peter White can get you set up with them. There are also a lot of other custom builders who can get a Rohloff bike for you. I am unsure of Canada but I have to imagine there are options as well.

Viich

It's actually often easier for Canadians to ship to and from Europe than USA unless you're close enough to the border to take the bike back and forth yourself. For no reason other than USA regulations and shippers suck.

MikeDeason

Thank you sir. We do have custom builders nearby. The closest is this one. Does the frame and fork not seem excessive? Admittedly I have never purchased a custom bike so I will be unsure if I am being fleeced.

https://mariposabicycles.ca/bikes/city/

veganbikes

With custom bicycles from a known and trusted builder you aren't getting fleeced, they might charge a lot but keep in mind it is equipment, skill and time. Plus they are building a bike for you not for the general masses so they can fine tune it for your needs! Most bicycle manufacturers are going for a spec that a wide swath of people can use reasonably comfortably with lower costs in mind. You might be say 170lbs so that great Trek or Specialized or whatever would probably be a bit over built for you and the geometry might not be quite right for your proportions. Enough to work but with a custom bike that is like a tailored suit made to fit you and you alone, you want a longer head tube you get a longer head tube. You want a slacker or steeper seat tube you got it, S&S, Z-Couplers or Ritchey Breakaway, they can do that. Maybe you want more bottle cage braze ons for a pump or lock or bags. Maybe you are running a dynamo set up and you want wiring in the frame. Maybe you like external routing but really prefer it on the drive side because you might do some portaging with the bike or are racing CX on the weekends and commuting during the week.

The sky is the limit.

However it should be noted that there are loads of builders out there both more expensive and cheaper and you can shop around. Some will be more barebones and might just offer a few models that they customize to a point and others will go for whatever they can build. I personally don't have much knowledge of Mariposa (I have looked at them recently) but looking at their website I would own one if I had the money. Though if I had the money probably all of my bikes would be custom frames. However choosing would be tough there are so many great ones that I would own happily. Decide what you want in the bike write out what you want in the bike, your dreams, your desires and start looking at custom builders and figure out one that you think matches most closely with what you want and send that screed to them and see what they say. Some like Independent Fabrications will have a build sheet you would fill out and that could be a good starting place if you are kind of unsure.

I will say think long and hard on it and don't limit yourself too much. When I got my Co-Motion I said these stupid stupid stupid words "I only plan on running a max of 35c tires and I don't want a dynamo too heavy", that bike has a dynamo (we drilled the fork at my old shop and got it wired) and 38c tires and that is maxed out with less room for mud clearance should I ever need it. Had I gone for wider tire clearance and the dynamo set up to begin with I could have saved money and time and could have gone with an SL fork meaning no wires connecting hub and fork. I was naive then and now I am stuck with it and it is still a great bike and I still love the bike but these days I would rebuild it differently as my tastes have matured and my love of comfort increased. However don't let that be a "don't do this" warning certainly get your dream bike just know there might be somethings you didn't want now that you do want in the future after you ride more and get a little older.

indyfabz

If that price includes the fenders and integrated rack, I don’t think the price is excessive. Eight years ago, I bought a custom ti road frame from a boutique builder. Frame price alone was about the same in USD. Enve fork and coloring with Cerakote were extra. No rack or fenders. I had three meetings with the builder to discuss the build and take measurements.

base2 

I recently picked up another Rohloff hub for another project that is in work. I ordered mine from SJS Cycles. There is also Bike24, R2 Bike (I think) and others. All European.

Cycle Monkey used to be the US distributor. I have nothing positive to say about them & I am glad they are out of business.

Peter White is an option if you can figure out how to order from him and are comfortable with all of your relevant information sitting in an email inbox somewhere.

R&E Cycles is a "distributor" in the sense that they'll sell you one only in a wheel they built, but they'll only do it if they build the wheel. They do not use the Rohloff required Sapim double-butted spokes with the proper 2.3mm j-bend. They will build the wheel with bog-standard 14ga straight gauge spokes against Rohloffs requirement and will protest any deviation from their profit margin friendly choice to only use the cheapest spokes they could buy in bulk even if you offer to bring them the proper spokes personally. (I rebuilt my own wheels with the proper spokes & will never let them build me a Rohloff wheel again...Even if they are the best "Build anything you want" frame maker in the area.)

For a frame that is much cheaper than a full custom, it may be worth looking at Soma Fabrications. They have a variety of bikes with sliding dropouts that can accommodate a Rohloff. Also, Salsa has a few models with sliding dropouts (of a different design) that net the same effect.

One confounding factor in the commercially available mass market bikes available is the non-driveside shift cable routing. There are options of course to run full length housing and band clamps to secure and other variations along that theme. Full custom frames don't have that concern.

If you do go custom, Paragon Machine Works makes sliding dropouts galore to support disc brakes. Tange IRD (Interloc Racing Design ie Merry Sales) are an option for the same reason. A Bushnell eccentric bottom bracket is also another option, too. A Bushnell also means no messing with brake adjustments at all like would otherwise be necessary if you were to use sliding dropouts with rim brakes.

Here is a picture of my Rohloff bike from today:
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/145063776@N04/, on Flickr
Maybe you can study it for ideas?

tcs

Get a frame, put a Rohloff on it. It's not rocket surgery.

MikeDeason

My understanding is there are only certain frames that accept the speed hub with belt

im not an experienced bike guy. Not my field. I would want pro build.

will likely go with the Priority 600. I found a shop that will service Pinion.

base2 

That is true. The rear triangle needs to come apart in some fashion to allow the belt in.

Something like this welded into the chain stay/seat stay: https://www.bikefabsupply.com/beltdrivesplitter

veganbikes

You are correct you do need a special frame that breaks for a belt drive the above poster had missed that. However with a chain tensioner you could put a Rohloff on a lot of different frames but if I am going Rohloff I want a belt and I want something nice.

Rick_D

IDK of any off the shelf options; know that custom builders offer it.

And a moment of appreciation for the former Budnitz Bicycles, who offered a Rohloff option on their gorgeous bikes. Had a bunch of possible builds saved on their website but they went bust before I could press the "buy" option. Was ready for the upgrade from Alfine 11 on my commuter.

MikeDeason

I was about to order the Priority 600 when I realized it's 35lbs. I can't imagine a bike at that weight will be comfortable for my commute, which involves constant stop and go, often involving inclines. I have several spots where I can fly down a hill in a segregated bike lane, only to be brought to a dead stop at the bottom by a traffic light and then face a steep climb when the light changes.

My current Alfine/Gates equipped bike weighs in at 27lbs which is manageable.

Viich

I get the impression you aren't really interested in getting hugely involved in a build, but if there's a shop near you that you want to work with, you could work with them about frames & parts, have them build a wheel, etc.

There are lots of framesets available out there that will accept belt drive at varying price points. I personally would be very tempted by the value of a build around something like a Soma Wolverine B-type (split seatstay & sliding dropouts so belt compatible) - but I would also love to get a frame built by a custom builder like Altruiste (on NB's Acadian coast) as a do-almost-everything bike.

Smaug1

With Gates/Rohloff, you are looking at a multi-thousand dollar bike. Rohloff is the heaviest IGH there is, but also the most efficient across the board. The hub alone is $1200 or something, right?

With the Priority 600, one of the advantages to the pinion gearbox is that there are plenty of ratios, down to the very low. Climbing that next hill will not be a problem, unless you're wanting to do it quickly. It's a heavy and heavy-duty commuter. Priority is based in NYC I believe, and they value low maintenance over any kind of performance angle. Aside from being heavy, you also lose pedaling efficiency. A clean chain/derailleur runs at about 97% efficiency. Hub gears (even Rohloff) will cost you around 5% more, right off the top, and Pinion gearbox has even lower efficiency. It's noticeable on an unpowered bike, so you have to weigh that against the near-zero maintenance. Speaking of maintenance, there's no prescribed maintenance at 1 km or 3 km, as you say above, unless Rohloff is a LOT more maintenance-intensive than Shimano. (Shimano says every two years or 3,000 miles, IIRC) Did you mean 1000 km initial maintenance and 3000 km afterwards?

If you want a bit more performance from a belt drive in a lighter package, check out their Apollo 11 gravel bike. I'm fairly happy with mine.* It has the Alfine 11, which is a step up from the Alfine 8 in terms of # of gears and efficiency. Out of the box it is about 26 lbs.

More on hub vs. Pinion vs. chain drive here: https://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-d...arbox-systems/

Otherwise, for a commuter, it would be about impossible to beat their Current electric/IGH/belt drive bike. The electric takes the pain out of those bottom-of-the-hill stop signs, heavier bike weights and lost efficiency in the IGH.


* I feel the lost efficiency, compared to chain drive. Note from the table in the above link that the Alfine 11 is between 87-94% efficient, depending on gear. That 10% of your power, in some gears, just turned into heat. The Rohloff is 92-97%, but average is maybe 94%.
Also, I was not able to adjust the rear wheel to completely eliminate a small amount of rear brake rub. There is some adjustment designed into the rear axle positioning to tension the belt and align the rear wheel. I got that tuned out, but then when I tightened the bolts to lock it in position, it crept back in. It's minimal, but that, of course, will be another hit to efficiency. This is completely eliminated on a derailleur/chain drive with through-axles, where everything is perfectly aligned. If I could do it again, I would buy a gravel bike with drailleur gears and through axles and just grudgingly accept chain maintenance. Some of the cost saved by eliminating the Gates belt drive and hub would go toward through axles. For now though, I'll just accept the lost efficiency and realize that I'm not in danger of winning any races; that's fine for a commuter.

Rick

Smaug1: Efficiency on a chain drivetrain that is clean and not at a far angle running through the derailleur is not realistic as to what is actually happening. Add some wear and dirt to that worn stretched chain and the Rohloff with the gates belt is not so much different in efficiency.

tcs

But not really.
https://www.veercycle.com/products/split-belt-pro

base2 

I had heard of Veer but hadn't realized that in the time since they have become a real company with an actual saleable product. Good for them.

Do you have any experience with their system? It seems about time Gates has some competition. I'm already thinking of which of my bikes I can upgrade just to see how the system performs.

Rick_D

Looks very clever, and an obvious path to belt conversion for many standard frames.

I'd be leery of buying a bike with this in lieu of a Gates-compatible bike, not knowing the company/system's longevity.

Duragrouch

I completely grasp the appeal of belts. But have you looked at the price of belts? Last I checked, Gates was about $80 a pop, and the Veer linkable one noted above is $150 each. If you ride a lot, that adds up.

Rohloff is a class act, never heard anything bad about one. Good seals, consumer changeable oil bath for everything including main axle bearings, that saves a lot in (LBS, if capable) annual cleaning and regreasing of lesser hubs if ridden in the rain. Some loss of efficiency, but better than most IGHs. And it's a total solution, not combining IGH and derailleur gearing like some.

I was excited about Pinion, but when I first looked, only found on bikes $5000+. I was not aware of the efficiency issues. I also need to carry my bike up stairs, already at weight limit, so heavy IGH or Pinion would make that marginal. That's also why I don't go electric, but also because I ride for both utility and exercise. Climbing the hills is the best exercise.

RH Clark

I always thought a split belt the perfect idea, but $550 is excessive for a belt and two sprockets IMHO.