Tubing Question
04-18-23, 08:14 AM
#1
Myrtle Beach Crab
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Newport RI
Posts: 826
Bikes: enough one would think, but thinking isn't my strong point
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times
in
214 Posts
Tubing Question
can anyone tell me about this columbus tubing on my late 50's frejus TDF? the seatpost size is 28.6.. i'm assuming straight gauge, but just was curious to know more.
04-18-23, 08:56 AM
#2
ambulatory senior
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 5,998
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1956 Post(s)
Liked 3,662 Times
in
1,680 Posts
04-18-23, 09:07 AM
#4
ambulatory senior
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 5,998
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1956 Post(s)
Liked 3,662 Times
in
1,680 Posts
04-18-23, 09:13 AM
#5
ambulatory senior
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 5,998
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1956 Post(s)
Liked 3,662 Times
in
1,680 Posts
I think it's butted. Is this a mountain bike?
Likes For cocoabeachcrab:
04-18-23, 09:26 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,436
Bikes: You had me at rusty and Italian!!
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked 1,053 Times
in
545 Posts
There are members more knowledgeable than myself but I believe “rinforzati” indicates butted tubing. I could see the seat post being 26.8 but 28.6 is huge!
FWIW - the seatposts on my 2 Legnanos measure 26.6 and 25.92 but I believe they are Falck tubing.
FWIW - the seatposts on my 2 Legnanos measure 26.6 and 25.92 but I believe they are Falck tubing.
Likes For RustyJames:
04-18-23, 09:33 AM
#8
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,800
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 1,331 Times
in
837 Posts
A 28.6mm seat tube outer diameter is normally accompanied by a 27.2mm seat post diameter, if butted, closer to 26.4 to 26.8, depending on tubing thickness, if plain gauge.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
Likes For John E:
04-18-23, 09:34 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,831 Times
in
1,997 Posts
28.6 mm inside diameter would mean the the outside diameter is the same.
an MC Escher frame. Not possible essentially.
oversized tubing was not a thing.
points to the quality of the measuring tools and or use.
I have a late 1950's Italian frame, inside diameter 26.8 mm, the weight is in line with a Columbus tubed bike and there are Columbus stamps on the tubes. Paint is off.
later SP tubing accepted a 27.0 for what it is worth.
an MC Escher frame. Not possible essentially.
oversized tubing was not a thing.
points to the quality of the measuring tools and or use.
I have a late 1950's Italian frame, inside diameter 26.8 mm, the weight is in line with a Columbus tubed bike and there are Columbus stamps on the tubes. Paint is off.
later SP tubing accepted a 27.0 for what it is worth.
04-18-23, 09:38 AM
#10
Myrtle Beach Crab
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Newport RI
Posts: 826
Bikes: enough one would think, but thinking isn't my strong point
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times
in
214 Posts
28.6 mm inside diameter would mean the the outside diameter is the same.
an MC Escher frame. Not possible essentially.
oversized tubing was not a thing.
points to the quality of the measuring tools and or use.
I have a late 1950's Italian frame, inside diameter 26.8 mm, the weight is in line with a Columbus tubed bike and there are Columbus stamps on the tubes. Paint is off.
later SP tubing accepted a 27.0 for what it is worth.
an MC Escher frame. Not possible essentially.
oversized tubing was not a thing.
points to the quality of the measuring tools and or use.
I have a late 1950's Italian frame, inside diameter 26.8 mm, the weight is in line with a Columbus tubed bike and there are Columbus stamps on the tubes. Paint is off.
later SP tubing accepted a 27.0 for what it is worth.
Likes For cocoabeachcrab:
04-18-23, 09:39 AM
#11
Myrtle Beach Crab
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Newport RI
Posts: 826
Bikes: enough one would think, but thinking isn't my strong point
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times
in
214 Posts
28.6 mm inside diameter would mean the the outside diameter is the same.
an MC Escher frame. Not possible essentially.
oversized tubing was not a thing.
points to the quality of the measuring tools and or use.
I have a late 1950's Italian frame, inside diameter 26.8 mm, the weight is in line with a Columbus tubed bike and there are Columbus stamps on the tubes. Paint is off.
later SP tubing accepted a 27.0 for what it is worth.
an MC Escher frame. Not possible essentially.
oversized tubing was not a thing.
points to the quality of the measuring tools and or use.
I have a late 1950's Italian frame, inside diameter 26.8 mm, the weight is in line with a Columbus tubed bike and there are Columbus stamps on the tubes. Paint is off.
later SP tubing accepted a 27.0 for what it is worth.
04-18-23, 10:58 AM
#13
ambulatory senior
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 5,998
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1956 Post(s)
Liked 3,662 Times
in
1,680 Posts
Likes For cocoabeachcrab:
04-18-23, 11:08 AM
#15
ambulatory senior
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 5,998
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1956 Post(s)
Liked 3,662 Times
in
1,680 Posts
Likes For 52telecaster:
04-18-23, 03:38 PM
#17
verktyg
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,030
Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 1,238 Times
in
654 Posts
Columbus Tubing Frejus
From way back (don't have time to look it up) Columbus produced 2 types of tubing sets for road bikes - SP and SL and 2 for pista (track) PS and PL. They were made of what Columbus marketers called Cyclex steel which was world standard 4130 Chrome Molybdenum Alloy Steel (Same as used by Tange and Ishiwata)
Columbus SP was the heavier gauge for road bikes and up until the mid to late 70's a large percentage of Italian frames especially production models were made of SP. By the mid 70's a lot of performance frames made by smaller builders were made of SL tubing. Many builders continued to use SP for frames over 60cm.
"Heavy" is a relative term: 365 gr difference in weight between uncut SP and SL tubes (12.875 oz). When cut to size to fit the frame being built the weight difference becomes less significant. As shown in the chart above the SP 3 main tube wall thickness was 1.0mm thick in the butted ends and 0.7mm think in the thinner sections. Only the top and down tubes were "double butted". Seat tubes were single butted.
Columbus SP seat tubes had a 0.7mm wall thickness at the to and took 26.8mm seat posts.
Hope this helps...
verktyg
Columbus SP was the heavier gauge for road bikes and up until the mid to late 70's a large percentage of Italian frames especially production models were made of SP. By the mid 70's a lot of performance frames made by smaller builders were made of SL tubing. Many builders continued to use SP for frames over 60cm.
"Heavy" is a relative term: 365 gr difference in weight between uncut SP and SL tubes (12.875 oz). When cut to size to fit the frame being built the weight difference becomes less significant. As shown in the chart above the SP 3 main tube wall thickness was 1.0mm thick in the butted ends and 0.7mm think in the thinner sections. Only the top and down tubes were "double butted". Seat tubes were single butted.
Columbus SP seat tubes had a 0.7mm wall thickness at the to and took 26.8mm seat posts.
Hope this helps...
verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 04-18-23 at 08:00 PM.
Likes For verktyg:
04-18-23, 05:04 PM
#18
Myrtle Beach Crab
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Newport RI
Posts: 826
Bikes: enough one would think, but thinking isn't my strong point
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times
in
214 Posts
From way back (don't have time to look it up) Columbus produced 2 types of tubing sets for road bikes - SP and SL and 2 for pista (track) PS and PL. They were made of what Columbus marketers called Cyclex steel which was world standard 4130 Chrome Molybdenum Alloy Steel (Same as used by Tange and Ishiwata)
Columbus SP was the heavier gauge for road bikes and up until the mid to late 70's a large percentage of Italian frames especially production models were made of SP. By the mid 70's a lot of performance frames made by smaller builders were made of SL tubing. Many builders continued to use SP for frames over 60cm.
"Heavy" is a relative term: 365 gr difference in weight between uncut SP and SL tubes (12.875 oz). When cut to size to fit the frame being built the weight difference becomes less significant. As shown in the chart above the SP 3 main tube wall thickness was 1.0mm thick in the butted ends and 0.7mm think in the thinner sections. Only the top and down tubes were "double butted". Seat tubes were single butted.
Columbus SP seat tubes had a 0.7mm wall thickness and took 26.8mm seat posts.
Hope this helps...
verktyg
Columbus SP was the heavier gauge for road bikes and up until the mid to late 70's a large percentage of Italian frames especially production models were made of SP. By the mid 70's a lot of performance frames made by smaller builders were made of SL tubing. Many builders continued to use SP for frames over 60cm.
"Heavy" is a relative term: 365 gr difference in weight between uncut SP and SL tubes (12.875 oz). When cut to size to fit the frame being built the weight difference becomes less significant. As shown in the chart above the SP 3 main tube wall thickness was 1.0mm thick in the butted ends and 0.7mm think in the thinner sections. Only the top and down tubes were "double butted". Seat tubes were single butted.
Columbus SP seat tubes had a 0.7mm wall thickness and took 26.8mm seat posts.
Hope this helps...
verktyg
04-18-23, 07:03 PM
#19
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,659
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 2,533 Times
in
1,060 Posts
I've seen a different chart with the same info. Note that the biggest difference between SL and SP is the thickness of the stays and fork blades. My guess is it is mainly these differences in the forks and stays that make an SL feel different from an SP frame and what makes this 6'3" 260lb Clydesdale like his SP frame better than anything else he has ever ridden.
Another factor the difference between the weight of SL and SP frames is the there is more, heavier SP tubing used in, say, a 62cm frame and less, lighter SL tubing used in, say, a 55cm frame.
The bottom line for me is that, at my size, I will be aware of but not particularly concerned about the fact that my 64cm Fartknocker frame is going to weigh more than your 55cm Fartknocker frame.
Another factor the difference between the weight of SL and SP frames is the there is more, heavier SP tubing used in, say, a 62cm frame and less, lighter SL tubing used in, say, a 55cm frame.
The bottom line for me is that, at my size, I will be aware of but not particularly concerned about the fact that my 64cm Fartknocker frame is going to weigh more than your 55cm Fartknocker frame.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
Likes For bikingshearer:
