dedhed

Still in good shape for 120 YO outbuilding, so staying up. Prospective buyers are considering turning it into a venue, which seems to be the latest thing around here.

nlerner

I see a lot of old barns in my bike riding in New England and admit to staring at pretty much all, wondering if there’s a gem of a barn find in there.

billytwosheds 

All this thread has done is make me now cringe when I read the name Mercet.

cudak888 

Dear M. Mercet (wherever the afterlife has taken you):

Your name is not deserving of the threads that have come to our forum as of recent. We are deeply sorry that your great skill, craftsmanship, and artistry is being hijacked in this fashion.

-Kurt

Ago15

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cudak888 

Please stop right there and take a good long look in the mirror. Thanks.

-Kurt

Ago15

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Mr. 66

"So nice" such the finest of racing frames, which of the biggest world races have been won with the brand?

cudak888 

None of them have come to this forum to tell us how unworthy we are of their creations.

-Kurt

Ago15

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Ago15

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Mr. 66

When? Who was the rider? Win by how much? What team? Cmon man, and no **** Sherlock I did know that.

smd4

Exactly. They clearly aren’t racing frames. One doesn’t need a trained eye to see that.

himespau 

Odd how two threads about the same obscure Swiss bike builder showed up at the exact same time. Almost like they were coordinated. Or like you were putting on 2 socks, first the right and then the left (or maybe the other way around).

smd4

I think I’ll call BS on that claimed weight.

nlerner

Wait, they’re not appreciated on this side of the Atlantic but Peter Weigle extolled as to their virtues? Last I checked, Mr. Weigle was building out of Lyme, CT.

If the point of these Mercet threads is to increase their value, I don’t think it’s quite working.

Mackers

You dare challenge the veracity of his statement as well as the accuracy of his scales?
Why, they were crafted by the gods of accuracy themselves on top of the Mont Blanc.

Down you heathen!

cudak888 

You should, because those people actually build frames, as did Mr. Mercet.

Have you ever picked up a torch?

-Kurt

Chombi1 

All I can say is, we have our own great builders here in the US that we appreciate just as much as Mercets might be appreciated by collectors in EU.
Everything I look closely at the fine details on my custom 1983 Davidson Signature, I am reminded of how US frame builders like Bill Davidson was able to produce framdsets that can be truly called masterpieces.

bulgie 

Just a translation error. The 13 and 2277 ten-thousandths pounds was the weight of the brazing filler in the fillets.

And yes it was measured to the nearest ten-thousandth of a pound, but in Switzerland, so it will weigh more than that at sea level. Ooh maybe they weighed it in earth orbit?

All kidding aside though, I believe the claimed bike weight is possible, and we shouldn't be quick to call another forum member a liar. That doesn't mean you have to accept and believe the weight, but calling someone a liar without proof is ungentlemanly.

I have made a steel frame that was less than a kilgram, and it wasn't built up with light parts unfortunately (not my bike, not my decision) but could have easily been that light and raced at the highest levels with a light rider. It was built for someone around 100 lb. I have also made track sprint bikes that were ridden at Worlds (silver medal) and at two Olympic Games (with other company's names on them), and those bikes were um, rather heavier than that! The construction details varied spectacularly between the ultralight road frame and the professional sprinter's frame, and I expect Mr. Mercet was also capable of a wide range of building styles. Clearly the frame on the 13 lb bike would not have had the gargantuan fillet joints that became his signature style.

I object to the idea that frame quality can be judged by results in top tier competition. There's a minimum quality hurdle you have to surpass for a professional's frame for sure, but look at all the races won on Peugeot PX-10* and similar factory-built frames. A pro's frame needs to be decently well-made, but many of the finest frames ever built were frankly too nice to use in competition. Some of these Mercet art-bikes fall into that category, too nice to actually race on.

*please don't bother telling me that Eddy's frames, when he raced for them, weren't really Peugeots. Yes we know that, but a lot of his team-mates rode Peugeots, and other teams rode factory bikes too, even if there was a separate shop set up in the factory to make the top model.

In the early-'90s at a titanium welding class, I met a guy who worked at Bianchi's Reparto Corse, and he told me a story from when they were making Gianni Bugno's frame. This was when he was already reigning World Pro Road champion. They were cutting the tubes without a drawing or computer printout, they just had a guy who "knew" what angle to cut the downtube miter at, for that frame size and head tube angle. He'd cut it and hold it up against the tubes already in the jig and then go re-cut again as necessary, not being too picky about the angle because the lug will hide any discrepancy. But then he cut it a little too short, so instead of wasting a good steel tube, he raised the bottom bracket a little. They literally didn't know until they put a headset and wheels in it what the BB height would be, and/or whether the toptube would be perfectly level. (It wasn't.) This was for the reigning [expletive deleted] world champion! And then he did it again, repeated at Worlds, on this frame of unknown geometry. Why would he care whether his TT was level?

Meanwhile where I worked, we were making frames precise to (usually) a tenth of a mm and a tenth of a degree. Why? No one was ever going to measure or notice, we were just being (pardon the vulgarity) anal-compulsive. To the best of my knowledge, no UCI pro ever rode one of our road frames, which were by any intrinsic measure better than most anything the real pros were riding. I have examined the actual frames ridden by real pros a number of times, and could tell you some horror stories...

The reason we didn't sponsor a pro team was they require a large number of frames and you don't get paid for them. We had a waiting list for our frames so we didn't really need the advertizing, so what's the point? The frames I made for actual pros had someone else's decals on them, and we did get paid for those.

We had a big famous American footballer, Heisman Trophy winner, who toured the shop and got fitted for a custom frame, but then he backed out when he was given the price quote. He said "you don't understand" as if it was obvious that we should be giving him the frame for free. We (my boss) said words to the effect of "no, you don't understand, and stop wasting my time". A millionaire many times over, he obviously could afford it, but liked the ego strokes of being given things more than he cared about bike quality. I guess this dude thought football fans would flock to buy a frame from us? Idiot acted like he'd been hit in the head repeatedly... oh yeah, he did. (Sorry, cheap shot!) We did make frames for several pro basketball players, who typically do need a custom frame just from being so tall, and you can bet they paid full price.

Mark B

smd4

I *personally* doubt a sub-14 pound complete adult-sized steel bike could have been built in the 1970s.

Reynolds 

There were sub-14 track bikes at the time.

Ago15

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smd4

Of course I wasn’t referring to track bikes.

smd4

Were you referring to a different bike when you quoted the “13,2277 lbs” weight? Because 6965 grams is a full two pounds heavier than the figure you mentioned earlier.