AlanKHG

I need a new set of wheels for my commuter & it seems Bicycle Wheel Warehouse is a pretty reputable site. I was thinking about a set of Open Sport or Open Pro wheels but they also have their house brand "Pure RT" wheelset:
https://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com.../prod_152.html

I'm no brand snob & would be fine finding a decent affordable Taiwanese option but there doesn't appear to be too much information out there on these wheels. And they're not eyeletted with just about the worst explanation possible:
So, any experience with these wheels? Any thoughts on the lack of eyelets? Velocity doesn't have them & their rims are pretty competent.

jamesdak 

Yeah, I'd like to hear from owners of BWW wheels also as I am considering a buy. On other forums they seem well liked but at this site they do not come up much.

Rob P.

I have been riding on a set of Vuelta SRP's from BWW for nearly 2 years now. Still dead on true after around 3000 miles even though I'm a clyde and there are only 28 spokes per wheel.

I did have a bearing fail on the rear hub last November. Simple replacement that took all of 3 hours including running down to get the bearing. Not a real problem since any wheel maker can have a bearing failure.

Joytech makes the hubs on these wheels and uses a hardened steel axle. Not for weight weenies but it ain't going to break. I don't know anything about the Pure RT wheels but would recommend the Vuelta SRP's.

BWW ships fast and the wheels are in a factory box. No account id theft problems like with Nashbar the last few years either.

davidad

The jotech hubs would be the deal killer for me.

AlanKHG

They're cheapest with Shimano 105 hubs which seem like the way to go. My issue is whether the rims are likely to be any good.

operator

Joytech hubs on ****ty generic no name rims. Should I even get excited?

This is the same crap that is floating on the internet x1000 rebranded into 3 gazillion 'brand names'. $200. Whoop dee doo.

OP: go for the Open pro wheelset on a set of real shimano (6700) hubs. **** that you can actually get spare parts for. It's only $100 more for stuff that has proven quality. Who cares if the build sucks at that point. At least the parts are decent to begin with.

jamesdak 

What's weird is how you have pages and pages of positive posts about BWW products at other sites yet this site has many that seem to slam them. Of course the posts from the other sites are from users with many miles on the wheels. Here most of the naysayers don't seem to actually have a pair. Guess it just goes to show how slanted anything (either way) you read on the internet can be.

From my research they seem like a good buy for the price and I've seen very few posts of actual users with problems. The two I did find mentioned great customer service and good resolution of the problem.

I'm real close to pulling the trigger on the Blackset Race set if I can't sway my significant other to approve the PSIMET build.

Jed19

There is no "joy" in "Joytech", period!

I second the Open Pro/Ultegra option.

cs1

Having gone throught that with Nashbar, I'll never buy from them again. No apologies just a form letter 6 months after the fact.

cs1

Honestly the 105/Mavic for $189 seems like a good deal for a name brand wheel. https://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com.../prod_140.html

operator

You type as if you think I don't actually repair low quality crap like that and handbuild open pros on shimano hubs all day for a living. For $100 more you get a 6700 hub with open pros. I mean really. Low quality is low quality whichever way you brand it.

That generic wheelset is a throwaway the second you wear out the rim. The hubs are worth zero dollars and good luck finding replacement freehubs and/or small parts for those.

jamesdak 

Actually "I typed" as if I didn't know you repaired "crap like that" all day. That would be because I am not a mind reader and have no clue who you are or what you do. So, don't be offended.

Now, look at it from my perspective. I'm just a simple ol' rider looking to improve on my heavy Bontrager SSR. I research the internet and find several posts at different sites about BBW wheels. Easily 95% or more of the posters that have them are happy and have had no problems. A couple have had problems but were impressed with the customer service and how they fixed the problem. And they did fix the problem. Then one guy had a problem and never let the company fix it.

Then you have a few posters on the threads calling them crap and whatever but never saying if they have ever used or even laid eyes on them. In this post people keep dogging crappy joytech hubs. Yet the Blackset Race says nothing about using Joytech hubs so to me that is not even revelent.

So given the facts as I have them, what should I think?

Add in a few other points, I have Rolf Vector Comps on my LeMond which many call crap. Yet I've been riding them all last year weighing at times over 190 lbs and have had zero issues.

Same with my Mavic CXP 21 rims mounted to Shimano 105 5500 hubs. No problems all season with them although right now the hubs seem a bit tight. Figuring on cracking them open, cleaning, inspecting, and relubing. Nothing special those about these rims but they've worked for me just fine. One broken spoke the day after a truck clipped me on that wheel.

So, how specifically are the Blackset Race wheels junk. You say the rims are throwaway. Ok, but what does that mean? They last 100 miles and you junk them, or they go 5000 miles and you junk them?? As to repair, they are sealed bearings and actually owners of the wheels have found replacement sealed bearings readily available at generic auto parts stores for just a few bucks. So maybe replacement parts are not actually a problem.

What do you really know about the hubs being used in the Blackset Race and their quality? Heck for that matter, what characteristics make a quality hub??

So, do you see my viewpoint on this? My budget is limited and I just want to make an imformed good buy. I'm not trying to champion any product. PSIMET's wheels get rave reviews here but BBW wheels get plenty of rave reviews also. Heck maybe I should just be asking Rob how his buildup is better? He is using name brand parts I can easily research where as with BBW I don't know who makes the parts. Not that this is a bad thing is they perform well though right?

Rob P.

You seem to get the wind up your skirt anytime anyone even thinks about not agreeing with you. I wish I knew why.

As for the wheels, you may spend all day repairing stuff that's broken but you don't say anything about how it got into that condition. You make the assumption that it was the product which caused it but I believe that even the best product on Earth will fail without proper care. Thus, by your experience there is NOTHING which is not "crap" since everything will fail.

As for me, I have 3000 odd miles on these wheels. I am not a lightweight nor do I ride only on glass smooth level pavement. These wheels have withstood my 240 lbs mashing on the pedals up some decently steep grades consisting of patchy asphalt on a regular basis without any complaints, flat spots, broken spoke, or going out of true. ONCE a freehub bearing failed but that can happen with anything mechanical so I don't hold that as being indicative of the rest of the product.

In my defense, I wash my bike regularly, oil and lube it correctly BEFORE it squeeks or won't shift correctly, and don't throw it around or store it carelessly. Not everyone can say that.

operator

I have a lot of experience with wheels like that and i'll share them.

So either you can choose to listen to it or keep gathering information that tells you what you want to hear.

1) Those are joytech hubs, anyone who's worked on wheels in general will know this. They have zero aftermarket support for their product at least in north america. Freehub toast? Seals gone? Other small hub parts gone? Good luck.
2) Those rims will wholesale for about $10. If that, from taiwan. They even *look* cheap. I'm not sure how much more of a giveaway that can be.
3) The wheelset is throwaway in the sense that once the rim is worn out, the hub is not worth your labour to relace to. Hell it's not worth relacing that even if your labour was free and your time was unlimited.
4) Sealed bearings are obviously not the problem. Every single cartridge hub on the market uses easily sourced commercially available cartridges. This is common knowledge and its not the problem. See point #1.

The wheelset is $200 MSRP. The wholesale from taiwan is significantly less than that and I guarantee you they are not handbuilt for that price.

If your budget is limited, at least make an informed choice. Just because a million people on their website (bias any?) say it's good doesn't make it so. There are plenty of people out there who have no ****ing clue that something sucks because they've never seen better.

Want to know why shimano groups and their associated parts aren't always the lightest? Even the dura ace stuff? It's because their **** *works*. I'll give you an example.

Shimano SPD-SL's BULLETPROOF.
Looks? Axle recalls.
Speedplay? ****tiest seals on the face of the planet. Needle bearings inside the body are non replaceable and are always the first to go.

For $100 more you can get an actual ultegra level shimano hubset on rims that are actually round stock, brand new from the box. If you're on a budget and can't afford quality components that will actually last you then don't buy anything. Nothing you can buy for $200 is significantly better than almost any stock wheelset you can find OEM on any bike worth
more than $1000 MSRP.

Know what you want and know what you're buying is good value. I see neither of these in generic wheelsets.

operator

There's a difference between disagreeing on a point that can be debated and being wrong.

Here's an example. You claim that 1+1 = 3.

That is *wrong*.

You claim that peaches are fuzzy. That's debatable. Get it now? Go ahead and use carbon assembly compound on everything carbon on your bike, lest their integrity be compromised, according to you.

mrrabbit 

Operator and I get along pretty well here. Why?

1. I don't take him personally.
2. And I've never tried to make him my friend to begin with. He has his, I have mine. Nuff said...

So what's the point?

He's right - and if you are getting bent out of shape - the problem is on YOUR end.

My inventory wheels are basic and replacement wheels. The same stuff used in machine-built replacement wheels distributed to shops. However, mine are hand-built from start to finish at an hour apiece minimum. More importantly, unlike the big distributors - I order spare freehubs along with my generic hubs - bearings, axles, and cones as well. Generic freehubs are good for 3 years on average - good luck finding a Joytech replacement. Same for Quando. Shimano's typically average 5-7 years - and someone usually has 'em available when needed within a 10 year window.

Plus I don't use stainless steel spokes that are so damn cheap that the weight makes 'em feel more suited to dental floss.

Wonder why there are so many cannablized Joytech's and Quando's at LBSs? Cause that's the **** they have to go through in order to support 'em.

I offered to provide hub support for Joytech via puchasing large quantities of axles, cones along with an inquiry for basic hubs. They took six months to return my call/email.

At least Quando was willing to give me the time of day at Interbike - so chances are pretty good I'll be able to help a couple LBS's here in the Bay Area service Quando hubs.

Operator's suggestion to upgrade a little is good advice. You'll have wheels that'll be easier and quicker to service in the future. Go the cheap route - your next repair job may just be a hack job because of a lack of parts in the chain of things.

...of course someone is going to pop in with the usual "I've never had a problem with...".

Then I guess that someone is special and is the ideal candidate to open up the latest and greatest small parts LBS.

=8-)

dedhed

For $100 more I got this for my commuter. 36 hole ultegra 3X open pros. Not worried about weight as much as taking everyday abuse

https://cgi.ebay.com/Ultegra-6700-Mav...item27b84489ca

jamesdak 

Well first off I've got to say you are hard to take serious since you come off quite condescending. Then add in your comments that I know to be wrong and it makes me wonder how much you really know, no offense.

For one, BWW does have a forum but all the positive comments I've mentioned previously are not from there, so let's through out your biased comment.

Nor am I seeking out the information that I want to hear so I find you saying that to be quite silly.

You claim to know that they are not handbuilt which of course means your are saying the BWW is lying, might be true but a bit of a risk to take in todays sue happy world don't you think? Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding your comment.

Now I totally agree that there is nothing admirable with joytech hubs by my understanding of their "quality". But I truly don't know if you're accurate identifying the Blackset hubs as Joytech.

So, while you may very well be accurate in your assessment, your delivery needs some work.

So, thanks for the info and I do mean that.

Truth be known I'm still strongly considering going through my my Shimano105/Mavic wheels and sticking with them. Still lighter weight would be nice for all mountain work this year. Plus I haven't ridden them since breaking a rear spoke the day after being clipped by a truck. There very well may be some damage I'm now seeing.

Rob P.

So because you get along with him, even though what he says is provably incorrect, the problem is on my end? Also, since when does a simple vocal majority determine what is correct merely because they are the majority?

I'm also not "getting bent out of shape" as you put it. My concern is that operator seems to consistently preach wrongheaded things and then backs them up with "but I'm a mechanic" as his sole authority even when the component manufacturer recommends different than operator's advice.

If I have to choose between recommendations by the mfg or some anonymous self-proclaimed internet "expert" I'd think that the mfg's recommendation is the logical course to follow despite the "guru" being someone's internet buddy.

Further, my opinion on this forum is equal to anyone else's opinion and every reader can take it or leave it. I have NOTHING to prove here and no ego to salve. I advise EVERYONE to look at the component manufacturers website and see what they have to say about whatever issue arises. Whether anyone follows that advice or the advice on this forum is for that particular individual to choose.

jamesdak 

True words Rob! For now I'm just servicing my Mavic CXP 21 rims mounted to Shimano 105 hubs. I took them apart and weighed them and they came in right at 1900 grams for the set with the rim tape still installed. The one set of wheels I was looking at were supposed to weigh in only about 200 grams lighter. Not sure it's worth the + $500 for the set. I'm still not sold on the Blackset Race wheels. Lots of good reviews on them but no too many reports with a ton of miles on them. I realized yesterday while doing a 50 miler just how crappy our roads are here. The bike and I both take a beating and I'm not sure how the light Blackset Wheels would hold up under my 185lb weight and 5000 or so miles a year pace.

I chased spoke tension all last year with the Mavics but am having them professionally tensioned this time. If I still have trouble I'll start looking at rims again.

mrrabbit 

1. Operator made an excellent and correct point about support for generic parts. You responded with:

"You seem to get the wind up your skirt anytime anyone even thinks about not agreeing with you. I wish I knew why."

You could have simply, agreed, or simply disagreed and walked away. Instead you chose to whip out your Napa Valley Sonoma "Wine List".


2. Phil Wood is a manufacturer....the above noted company is an assembler. I too am and assembler.

3. Just because wheel is considered "hand-built" by the assembler doesn't mean it is. Some "hand-built" wheels are laced by hand, trued and tensioned approx. 80% by machine, and then finished by hand for 5 to 20 minutes depending on the class and price level. That's a hug difference as compared to a 100% hand-built wheel with a much more relaxed clock. Chance are pretty good what I just described are what the "Bicycle Wheel Warehouse NBS Build Technology amounts too.

4. Those are either Joytech, Quando, or Forumula hubs. That freehub will either freeze, free-spin or develop 2-3mm of play in about 3 years, 30,000 miles time. If the rim is fine as well as the spokes - lack of spare and labor charge will dictate abandoning perfectly good rims and spokes for a whole new wheelset.

5. If the OP can get BWW to provided a spare freehub along with the purchase...fine...go for it. Else - upgrade as OPERATOR AND OTHERS APPROPRIATELY SUGGESTED.

6. You said: "Further, my opinion on this forum is equal to anyone else's opinion and every reader can take it or leave it."

Which is exactly what I recommended...how about following your own advice?

=8-)

jamesdak 

We'll I'm glad to see you confirm the issue on the hubs. Still, while not made of money, 30,000 miles for around $300 actually seems quite good to me.

davidad

Go with the 105 hubs and the Open Sport rims.

fholt

I got a set of BWW built wheels when my Specialized (alex) wheelset had numerous problems and Specialized decided to just eat them and give me more appropriate wheels. They are 105 hubs and Mavic CXP22 rims, 32 hole 3x laced. These wheels were rock solid for a good couple of years, and I go about 225 and put down lots of power when I stand in a high gear. The only reason I abandoned the set was that I finally managed to start to crack the rim around the eyelets on the rear drive side holes. Mind you this wheel never even needed as much as a minor true in 2+ years of service. It's still in inventory as a backup, until I get around to rebuilding the hub and ordering spokes to build it onto a CXP33 rim that I have waiting. If I were not assembling my own, I'd buy from BWW in a heartbeat.

cycle_maven

+1 on the 105 or better hubs and the Mavic OP rims. BWW as a source would be fine. That's a prescription for a good quality wheelset that will give many happy miles of trouble-free riding. But- unless you know that the wheel was really hand-built, it's worth it to spend another $50 or more to have them tensioned, trued and stress-relieved by a mechanic that knows what they're doing.