Radish_legs

I recently heard this is possible. It's at the discretion of your local association's guy who decides on upgrades.


Are there any cons to requesting an early upgrade? In 4 crits, I have podiumed twice. Top 10 all 4 times. One of my experienced racer friends said it would be fine to submit request for early upgrade to 4.


Is there a disadvantage to an early request for upgrade? Is there a disadvantage to actually upgrading early?


I already do group rides with many of the guys who race the B crits, so it's not out of my league. And for me that would be the purpose of upgrading. To do both the C and B crits back to back.

caloso

Unless you won every race and lapped the field, I would say no. Cat 5 is for learning how to race. Use your next 6 races to try stuff. Attack early, attack late, sit in, help friends. Have fun.

PepeM

Any other races coming soon, or will you do that same training race six more times? If the latter, then it might be worth it to move up already. If more interesting races are coming soon, then you might want to wait. Up to you really.

topflightpro

Just do your 10 races. It's not that many, and as Caloso said, use this as an opportunity to gain some experience doing different things or riding outside your comfort zone.

aaronmcd

Also, as was said, unless you are off the front all the time you are getting your cat 5 pack racing experience, so no reason to grant an early upgrade. I can see if you were off the front solo all the time then cat 5 might be a waste as you wouldn't be learning anything except how much faster than cat 5s you are.

gl98115

Go for it. Don't let the man hold you back.

Radish_legs

The two crits I have done are 4s and 5s together. Mostly 4s. No, I'm not lapping the field. No, I've not successfully been in a successful break yet.

carpediemracing 

I was about to say that if you can do 4-5 races and still do well then upgrade.

Also experience in a field is more important than placing, but if you're okay in the field then upgrade.

rubiksoval

Had two teammates just upgrade after 6-7 races. I'd go ahead and upgrade if possible. Doesn't hurt to ask. Definitely wouldn't spend a day extra in cat 5s if I had the opportunity.

BTSyndrome

There is a road race around here that is 36 miles for cat 5 and then jumps to 72 miles for cat 4.
Choosing races might make a difference.
But if you only do crits then who cares, do what ever you want.

topflightpro

One thing you are missing is that Cat 4s are not faster, better, or stronger than Cat 5s. They just did their 10 races. So, it's a worthless comparison to say how you are doing compared to 4s.

I don't know what it's like where you are, but around here, they've pretty much stopped giving early upgrades. Not only that, officials have gotten a lot more aggressive in pulling dropped or lapped riders.

This all relates back to USAC insurance issues and lawsuits. Racers and promoters keep complaining about increasing USAC fees. The cause of that increase is rising insurance premiums related to race crashes, which can bring tens of thousands of dollars in health care bills. Not only that, some people are filing lawsuits against promoters and other racers over these crashes, despite the waiver.

One big problem is that if a rider is upgraded early without meeting the minimum criteria, then those lawsuits have some wiggle room. They can claim that USAC officials did not follow stated protocols when upgrading a rider, therefore the waiver is voided. (This was told to me by our regional USAC rep and one of our local officials who is pretty high up in the USAC system and routinely works national championships and pro events.)

Costco hot dogs

It's right here:

"USA Cycling sanctioned and approved rider education clinics (at least half day), will count as three qualifying races for category 5 to 4 upgrades up to a maximum of 5 qualifying races. It will also count as 3 upgrade points for a category 4 to 3 upgrade. Riders upgrading to cat 4 will receive two race-days credit for participating in a mentored-race experience, where the mentor is at least a cat 3 rider and has been approved by the Local Association."

Locally, our upgrade coordinator will allow "mentored-race experience" to mean team training rides under the tutelage of cat 3's (USA Cycling certified coaches) on the team. Typical training ride stuff; riding in 2x rotation, cornering drills, pacelines, etc.

I wouldn't race 4 races and try to upgrade based on clinics/mentored-race experience, but that's just my opinion.

globecanvas

I think it was @umd who said "a cat 4 is just a cat 5 who didn't quit 10 times."

Matt2.8NJ

Why the big rush to upgrade? I blew thru the 5-->3 upgrade in a few months and look back asking...what's the big rush? Spend the time learning the fundamentals in racing safely and training smartly. There wil be plenty of time to race in the future, with likely better results if you put time in early building good fundamentals. IMO. Enjoy the rush of being new to the sport and soaking it all in.

Radish_legs

The reason to rush to 4 is so that I can start doing the B crit. Why the B crit? So I can get in more training and exercise. And experience. Otherwise it's 30 minutes and then I'm done.

topflightpro

Wait, you spent a year and a half hemming and hawing about whether you should race, and now you are suddenly in a rush to upgrade?

Just do your ten races and earn it.

dz_nuzz

Submit the request, worst that can happen is that they deny it and then you need to do all 10 to upgrade. Difference between the 4s and 5s are marginal. If you haven't caused a crash yet, you are probably safe enough to be in the 4s.

Radish_legs

I'm already riding with the 4s in the C race. Of course many 4s do the C&B races, some only the B race. By podiuming twice in my first 3 races at this one crit, I'm also risking being banned from the C crit before I am a 4. Which means I will never be able to collect any points from this crit. Which may or may not matter, but it would make it less likely that I would ever be a Cat 3 if that happened.

Radish_legs

If I am denied an early upgrade, I can go to the promoter of crit and explain that I tried an early upgrade, but was denied. And that I need to continue the C race. I might be in the weird situation of needing to sandbag my results as a Cat 5. I think it is very likely that I would get a 1st place in the next 6 attempts, and probably podium a few more times. Given that the strong riders from the early season have catted up already. By sandbagging I mean trying some things that are not suited to me, but give me experience. Like solo breakaway attempt and the like.

topflightpro

Why would you be banned from a race? If it's a 4/5 event and you are a 5, you race your event. I've never heard of anyone banning someone from a 4/5 race because they won too much as a 5.

PepeM

The horror!

globecanvas

With respect, you are really coming at this from the wrong direction. Amateur racing is a fun hobby, and doing well makes it a lot more fun. Thinking about gaming upgrade points is the least fun part of the whole thing. Do the races you want to race and focus on doing your best in every race. If you're doing well in 4/5 races now, you'll do well in 4/5 races later, so you're not giving up anything by succeeding. If your particular race series has a rule about you have to move up to the Bs (presumably a 3/4 race) if you get X podiums in the Cs (4/5), then it's very likely they will just let you do the B race as a 5 -- and again, you won't be giving up anything by doing so.

Your situation isn't unique, anyone here who has done well probably started out by doing well in 4/5 races too. I had some 4/5 podiums as a 5 and remember thinking they were "wasted" somehow but it's just not the case.

There is a local training series with an A and B race that has a similar rule about moving up from the Bs if you keep winning, and I've seen them let successful 5s into the A (P123) race, which never goes well. A strong 5 does not belong in a P123 race. But that's different from your situation, a strong 5 in a 4 race is no big deal. Like I said earlier, a 4 is just a 5 who didn't quit 10 times.

hack

I doubt you'd get banned from the races if your early request is denied. You could ride away from the field and you wouldn't get banned. We have a handful of very talented cat 5s locally that could race in the P12 fields without much issue, but they're doing their time like everyone else.

PepeM

You said you still haven't figured out how to sprint properly (shifting while sprinting,) didn't you? Well, here you have a perfect opportunity to practice just that. That is what training series are for. Improve your sprint, win a few, and then move up. What's the rush?

merlinextraligh

If you can't do well enough in the B race to get enough points, top 10's or pack finishes to upgrade to Cat 3, you probably wouldn't be ready for Cat 3.

It's not that hard to go from 4 to 3, and it sounds like you won't have too much difficulty with the B race once you get to 4.

And you may not want to rush your way to Cat 3 if many of the Cat 3 races in your area are P,1,2,3.