Do you patch tubes?
#101
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I’ve seen lots and lots of failures on everything but Rema. My local co-op cheaped out a few years ago and the number of failures on our patched tubes went from a few (mostly operator error) to many that simply wouldn’t stick. Many of them came off when the tube was folded for storage. If the tube were put into a tire, the patch might hold better but that’s not a problem I’ve ever had with Rema. As the old saying goes: “The most expensive tool is the one you buy twice.”
Sounds like some Patch Training is in order.
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& remember, if you know exactly what & where the puncture is, you don't have to remove the wheel & tire. just get 1 side of the tire bead off & sneak the deflated tube out in that area, patch it & then slip the tube back in, be sure it's straight etc, get the tire bead back on & inflate.
I tried this one time w/ a MTB tire & it worked more easily than I expected
I tried this one time w/ a MTB tire & it worked more easily than I expected
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I've used them successfully on my 32mm tires which don't get pumped up beyond 80 psi.
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I've patched a few times using those Park Tool pre-glued patches.
Have had one failure where it "slow leaked" all the way home and I had to top the tyre up a few times (likely user error in patching) but every other time they've been fine. I don't go into triple-digit psi though!
Like above, I carry one spare tube, so the patches only come out at the roadside if I get a second flat.
Have had one failure where it "slow leaked" all the way home and I had to top the tyre up a few times (likely user error in patching) but every other time they've been fine. I don't go into triple-digit psi though!
Like above, I carry one spare tube, so the patches only come out at the roadside if I get a second flat.
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Why do I patch tubes? Because they are there.
Stopped using self adhesive patches long ago after too many leaks.
Stopped using self adhesive patches long ago after too many leaks.
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Better title: I Don’t Believe It Because Nothing of Value Ever Comes from A Co-op. (Note the proper use of co-op. It’s not a chicken coop)
You seemed to have missed the whole “patching was good with Rema and bad without” thing.
Sounds like some Patch Training is in order.
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#108
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In my experience it amounts to fear mongering claiming only Rema will do. I've bee patching for decades with many different patch kits and always had good, lasting results. The trick is to know how to properly glue the patch, not picking a certain brand. Imo, every kit will work if you know and even Rema will fail if you don't. - Stay away from the preglued quick patches tho. Get the vulcanizing type with orange contact patch.
Im sure in the COOP you've seen a lot of bad patch jobs, - and I bet you a dollar they were all either preglued or failed from inadequate technique.
Btw.. it really isn't hard. Just remember abrading the tube before applying the glue, then let the glue dry for 5 minuets and only the press on the patch. - It will fuse to the tube, instantly.
Im sure in the COOP you've seen a lot of bad patch jobs, - and I bet you a dollar they were all either preglued or failed from inadequate technique.
Btw.. it really isn't hard. Just remember abrading the tube before applying the glue, then let the glue dry for 5 minuets and only the press on the patch. - It will fuse to the tube, instantly.
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#109
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I tried patching a tube on the seam last year. It didn't work. so I bought a new one. Perhaps with more patience it would have been fine though.
Last month I got another flat, from a construction staple. I put a new tube in, but plan to try patching this one, it's not on the seam. Only this time I'll put an honest effort into it.
Last month I got another flat, from a construction staple. I put a new tube in, but plan to try patching this one, it's not on the seam. Only this time I'll put an honest effort into it.
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Do you patch tubes?
.
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I think the point was you're probably not doing it correctly if that many other brands fail on you. I've had leaks, but only because I messed something up. Perhaps your beloved Rema patches are easier to do correctly or are more tolerant of a sloppy job.
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I don't mean to be argumentative but if these REMA patches do a good job with less effort wouldn't that make them a bit better than a patch kit where a person needs to be fastidious in their workmanship ? I only had good luck with Velox patch kits and those Park scabs hardly ever worked even to get me home. - yet some people really like them. On the side of the road I would want the easiest, most reliable system to get me going again in the shortest amount of time but I am funny that way.
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I don't mean to be argumentative but if these REMA patches do a good job with less effort wouldn't that make them a bit better than a patch kit where a person needs to be fastidious in their workmanship ? I only had good luck with Velox patch kits and those Park scabs hardly ever worked even to get me home. - yet some people really like them. On the side of the road I would want the easiest, most reliable system to get me going again in the shortest amount of time but I am funny that way.
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Absolutely. If they do work better, then they would in fact be a better choice just as cyccommute claims. Just wondering why they had such trouble getting all the other brands to work properly.
Glue can work, obviously, but co-op clients who are inexperienced at patching tubes and/or impatient to finish the job probably manage to screw up the patching procedure more easily with other patch kits.
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https://sdb.rema-tiptop.de/files/AU_..._VULC_0029.pdf
https://www.parktool.com/assets/doc/...t/VP-1_SDS.pdf
any chemists or chemical engineers amongst the group? I was going to suggest the sniff test and taste test but decided against it lol..Park glue made in Taiwan Rema in Germany. who takes their patching more seriously......
on certain areas I can see how possibly the rema patch with its serrated edges might not lift but to be honest I have used park without fail and the patches appear identical other than the edges. If one is into fashion the Rema can be found in all black without the orange edges....
https://www.parktool.com/assets/doc/...t/VP-1_SDS.pdf
any chemists or chemical engineers amongst the group? I was going to suggest the sniff test and taste test but decided against it lol..Park glue made in Taiwan Rema in Germany. who takes their patching more seriously......
on certain areas I can see how possibly the rema patch with its serrated edges might not lift but to be honest I have used park without fail and the patches appear identical other than the edges. If one is into fashion the Rema can be found in all black without the orange edges....
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Absolutely. If they do work better, then they would in fact be a better choice just as cyccommute claims. Just wondering why they had such trouble getting all the other brands to work properly.
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From what cyccommute has said, it seems likely that the failures with other brands come down to the fact that Rema patches become (in effect) welded to the tube whereas other patches are merely glued on. (There may be other brands that have comparable chemistry, but whether that's the case is unclear.)
https://sdb.rema-tiptop.de/files/AU_..._VULC_0029.pdf
any chemists or chemical engineers amongst the group?
any chemists or chemical engineers amongst the group?
Interestingly, one of the components (cyclohexylethylamineamine) is darn close to a nylon precurson. Should we call Rema a nylon cement instead of a rubber glue?
Now a few caveats:
1. The MSDS isn't intended to give the reader information about how the material is supposed to work; it's just a list of what's in the package and what hazards are associated with it.
2. I'd expect the details of how it's supposed to work are proprietary, and quite likely covered by patents, as Rema has changed the composition of their glue within the last 17 years. So another chemist may come up with different speculations on the details of chemical mechanisms.
3. Because polymerization may continue after the 5 minutes' "drying" time, a cyclist would be well advised to avoid putting a freshly patched tube back on the wheel -- to the extent possible. I know through experience, when you run out of tubes, patch and ride beats walking; but it's not ideal.
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https://sdb.rema-tiptop.de/files/AU_..._VULC_0029.pdf
https://www.parktool.com/assets/doc/...t/VP-1_SDS.pdf
any chemists or chemical engineers amongst the group? I was going to suggest the sniff test and taste test but decided against it lol..Park glue made in Taiwan Rema in Germany. who takes their patching more seriously......
on certain areas I can see how possibly the rema patch with its serrated edges might not lift but to be honest I have used park without fail and the patches appear identical other than the edges. If one is into fashion the Rema can be found in all black without the orange edges....
https://www.parktool.com/assets/doc/...t/VP-1_SDS.pdf
any chemists or chemical engineers amongst the group? I was going to suggest the sniff test and taste test but decided against it lol..Park glue made in Taiwan Rema in Germany. who takes their patching more seriously......
on certain areas I can see how possibly the rema patch with its serrated edges might not lift but to be honest I have used park without fail and the patches appear identical other than the edges. If one is into fashion the Rema can be found in all black without the orange edges....
On the other hand, I’ve spent many years of looking into this and trusting the research and development of others. That’s fair in science, by the way. Not too many scientist are going to remain as scientists if they lie to everyone.
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In my experience it amounts to fear mongering claiming only Rema will do. I've bee patching for decades with many different patch kits and always had good, lasting results. The trick is to know how to properly glue the patch, not picking a certain brand. Imo, every kit will work if you know and even Rema will fail if you don't. - Stay away from the preglued quick patches tho. Get the vulcanizing type with orange contact patch.
Im sure in the COOP you've seen a lot of bad patch jobs, - and I bet you a dollar they were all either preglued or failed from inadequate technique.
Btw.. it really isn't hard. Just remember abrading the tube before applying the glue, then let the glue dry for 5 minuets and only the press on the patch. - It will fuse to the tube, instantly.
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#121
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Absolutely. If they do work better, then they would in fact be a better choice just as cyccommute claims. Just wondering why they had such trouble getting all the other brands to work properly.
From what cyccommute has said, it seems likely that the failures with other brands come down to the fact that Rema patches become (in effect) welded to the tube whereas other patches are merely glued on. (There may be other brands that have comparable chemistry, but whether that's the case is unclear.)
Glue can work, obviously, but co-op clients who are inexperienced at patching tubes and/or impatient to finish the job probably manage to screw up the patching procedure more easily with other patch kits.
Glue can work, obviously, but co-op clients who are inexperienced at patching tubes and/or impatient to finish the job probably manage to screw up the patching procedure more easily with other patch kits.
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#122
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Lots of silly discussion about patches and chemicals. LOL. Just wow.
When I did use glue patches whatever Walmart sold worked just fine.
When I did use glue patches whatever Walmart sold worked just fine.
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For a very long time, we used Rema patches and Rema vulcanizing fluid in the large cans. There were always some failures due to poor technique. That’s inevitable in a volunteer organization. Then some of the paid staff decided to save money by going to Clark patches. Failures of the patch increased significantly. I estimate the failure went from 1 in 100 to 1 in 10 or 20. The only variable that changed was the patches.
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These two comments do not agree with each other. If a patch peels, it failed. With the exception of the few patches I have botched, none of my "vulcanized" (glued) patches have ever peeled, not even after over a decade and with multiple patches all over. The patch lays so flat that I couldn't pick an edge with my fingernail if I tried. But I digress, Rema may well still be a better, easier to use product. It's just that the other patches aren't as bad as you make them seem.
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Last edited by urbanknight; 06-22-23 at 01:54 PM.
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