DaveLeeNC

I have an occasionally recurring problem with cramps in my inner thigh (Vastus Medialis muscle, I believe). It has come in several forms.

1) I have occasionally experienced this when just sitting in an easy chair with my leg curled up. This has happened maybe 4 times in the past 2 years, and I just don't recall my workout status at those times. But it was always late evening and HOURS after my last bike ride (if there was one that day). And 'just' straightening out my leg resolved the problem for the evening, although I was careful to keep that leg fairly straight for a while.

2) Twice on longer training rides where just 'stand up with both legs straight' for 30 seconds resolved the problem. But it was always right at the end of the ride so it is hard to know if/when they would return.

3) In my first (and last so far) solo Century ride they hit mildly at around mile 85 where I backed off a bit. Then both legs literally locked up simultaneously at mile 96 (and I have no idea how in the world I clipped out at that point). I decided that proceeding was literally dangerous (the last 4 miles of my ride involved moderate levels of traffic), so I stopped at that point. Undertraining or just went out too hard is a reasonable explanation for this one.

4) My 'plan' for this past weekend was a rest day on Saturday and a long ride on Sunday. But with a tropical storm headed toward us, I decided to do a (somewhat shorter) 'long ride' (1:45) and even that got 'weathered out' so it was 35 minutes on a bike and 60 minutes on a trainer. I did not ride this really hard, but could really feel the fact that I NEEDED a rest day (which I got on Sunday). That ride ended around 5:00 pm and 9 HOURS LATER (while I was asleep) my left leg cramped with a vengeance (again it was 'solved' by straightening that leg which under those circumstances took real effort). That muscle was still somewhat tender the next morning.

I have done some limited research here and there are stories all over the place about pickle juice, dehydration, electrolytes, etc. I don't know about the pickle juice thing, but this is NOT (in my case) either dehydration or electrolytes. Anyone else experience anything like this?

Thanks.

dave

Carbonfiberboy 

My wife, all the time, regardless of training status. The medical term is "idiopathic." Let us know when you find the fix.

RuralJuror

Yea, I get inner thigh discomfort and cramps. A seat adjustment/change might be necessarry. But I realized the more I bike the easier it gets. Also - the way you sit is very important. When I first started cycling, I had no idea how to properly sit on a bicycle seat...
Try yoga stretching - it really helps to open up the hip muscles and stretch out that area. Let me know if you find what works

MinnMan

I have all manner of issues with leg cramps - sometimes in the inner thigh - during rides and some times painful spasms after rides. Proper hydration during the ride is key - once I'm dehydrated, making it up afterwards is not much help. I do take electrolyte pills (Endurolytes) for longer rides on hot days, and maybe they help (Maybe they don't). But above all, the cramps diminish with training. When I'm not in such great shape, they can threaten after a 40 mile ride, when I'm in better shape, they are possibily going to be an issues on a 70 mile ride. And when I'm in really good shape, I can do a century without problem - so long as I'm careful about hydration.

DaveLeeNC

Thanks for the comments.

Where I ride (south central NC), typical rides tend to be a constant set of 'rollers'. 20 to 60 seconds up, 10 to 30 down, and repeat until the ride is over. It is easy/tempting to just stay on the big ring and 'power over' most of the ups. And doing this while in the saddle seems to (in my case) put a lot of stress on the Vastas Medialis.

Just a guess on my part, but that is my sense of things. Fortunately or unfortunately I do not run into this issue often enough to be able to easily experiment.

dave

Rowan

I get inner thigh cramps when I come back to distance cycling after a lengthy lay-off and when there is intensity and hill-climbing involved.

Dehydration is a part of it. And electrolyte depletion.

Which is all OK... it takes a while for me to get rehydration and electrolyte routines back on track, and the muscles strengthen and become adapted to the effort.

Note that I am basing my comments on my personal experience. Both hydration and electrolytes play an important role for me, but that role tends to diminish in comparison to getting those muscles used to just riding.

DaveLeeNC

Well, this is just plain strange. I have picked up my training a good bit starting early April. But for the past 5 weeks my CTL (basically a measuring of training load) has been relatively flat (but higher than going into that time period).

Partly because of circumstances and partly because I needed the rest, I took 2 days of this past weekend. I felt pretty good/rested on Monday and rode strong, but did nothing exceptional in my 95 minute training ride. In fact it was easier 'than it measured' because it was 95 minutes of riding with two forced breaks (grocery store stop and a meeting) shoved in the middle of the ride.

So at 1:00 a.m. I wake up to this HUGE Vastus Medialis cramp in my right inner thigh. As usual when I straightened my leg it went away. But Damnation - does rest during rides and rest leading up to rides bring on cramps - really frustrating. This is probably the most rested that I have been in 6-8 weeks.

dave

Carbonfiberboy 

In contrast to cramps during the ride, it's my observation that night cramps are often related to dehydration. Probably nothing to do with training state.

DaveLeeNC

That could well be true in many cases. But in this case I was probably the least dehydrated that I have been since the hot weather arrived in early June. Sat and Sunday involved NO RIDING. Monday was a 'long enough to generate some dehydration' (105 minutes), but it was split up into 3 pieces with lots of hydration during the breaks. I suspect that this is the first time during the entire month where I went 3 straight days without losing at least 4 pounds of water at the end of a ride.

Earlier in this thread or another one, you referred to this as 'idiopathic'. I think you got it. It will be a discussion with my GP in September when I have a follow-up on another unrelated issue.

dave

10 Wheels

Try some Tonic Water with Quinine added.

It Works..

https://www.walmart.com/ip/14711324?w...831505&veh=sem

Rowan

Fixed for accuracy.

hobkirk

FWIW - I have had similar problems since I started riding 5 years ago - leg cramps while riding and often while sleeping. I've searched and asked questions. I've discussed it with my PCP. I've made sure I drink plenty, eaten bananas, swallowed electrolyte pills, stretched, etc. I've taken megadoses of magnesium. Nothing worked. If I pushed my boundaries, cramping would probably occur. I've had to stop during a century to stretch.

I bought some "Hyland's Leg Cramps" pills at the end of last season, just before I stopped riding to get a new knee. My rides had gotten very short (under 20 miles on average) and I still had problems, although not very bad. Five months of no riding, I dived right in when I started riding again (first 3 weeks = 12 rides, 27 mile average*), and the cramping has NOT returned! (Well, once I felt like I might cramp at night.)

The pills must work! Even though I haven't taken them. Maybe the magic is BUYING them?

What's my point? I have no idea, other than it's possible it might change due to unknown circumstances.


* My current rides are the same rides I used to do, my speed is only slightly less, and the distance is longer than at the end of last year. My fitness is unchanged. In June I've done 11 rides, 33 mile average, a couple of hard rides (two with intervals). Still no cramping (I'm knocking on wood - I don't want to jinx this change).

DaveLeeNC

Interesting. I need to either buy some pills and not take them or get a knee replacement if I want to fix this.

How about you give me some of the Leg Cramp pills, but don't send them to me. I would think that this would be close enough :-)

dave

hobkirk

Consider it done!

531Aussie

It could be the kinking of the external iliac artery. However, from what i know, it usually happens during at least moderately high intensity, not rolling around or lying down

Exercise Induced Arterial Endofibrosis | CyclingTips

MinnMan

I'd say your strange cramps in the middle of the night are a combination of factors, including maybe hydration, etc., but I'd bet that the underlying problem is that your muscle fitness just isn't very high at the moment. Keep riding, stay hydrated, and I'll bet the cramps become less frequent.

The cramps are also related to what you do after your ride. The worst is if you do a very challenging ride, then go home and your legs are motionless for a long time - e.g., you take a nap. If I know I've really stressed my thighs, I have learned NOT to allow them to be motionless for long periods for the next 8 hours. I change my position whilst sitting, I go for little walks, I do household chores. If I am motionless for a long time, then when I rouse myself and move my legs SPASMS threaten. And oh boy, those hurt.

NealH

This is true, don't become sedate and just sit or lay around following your ride. Do some stretching exercises and keep on the move. You need carbs after hard or hot rides - riding and dieting don't go well together. Take a couple 500mg Magnesium supplement pills after a ride. The last couple weeks in NC have been blistering hot and hydration is important. Find a Gatoraid flavor you like and drink a lot of it. The low calorie G2 series is very easy to drink.

If I ride really hard, I often get that 1AM cramp too. Once I get up and move around it goes away, and doesn't return. Its weird, and idiopathic is probably the best descriptor. As we age the truth is our circulation isn't what it once was.

DaveLeeNC

Interesting - for me it is not moving around that helps (if anything it makes it worse). All that I have to do is to completely straighten the offending leg and the cramp will almost instantly disappear. Strange stuff and I have encountered it in relatively cold weather (recall one time when the high was in the 40's). You are right - REALLY hot in NC lately. I have significantly picked up my mileage since I posted this in early May, no more cramps and I am sloppy as hell when it comes to hydration on rides of 2 hours or less. Go figure.

dave

531Aussie

I'm no Dr Butt, if it's isolated to the mediali, there's a chance it's the iliac artery thing.

DaveLeeNC

Had an interesting experience today which sheds (partial) light on this - or at least narrows the circumstances where it shows up.

The issue is VERY occasional (but often severe) inner thigh (vastus medialis) cramps with no obvious relationship to exercise patterns. The only exceptions were at the end of a century where I was severely pushing my limits and one longer training ride where a single cramp showed up once. The others were evening or night time and sometimes in periods where my training was well below 'normal' for me.

Yesterday was a SOMEWHAT hard day of 90 minutes not that hard except for two roughly max 10 minute TT efforts with 4 min rest between. Today was quite moderate (95 minutes at average power 78% of ftp - didn't push things anywhere much). About 2 hours after the ride I was in my easy chair (Lazyboy style recliner). I was watching (DVR) the TdF coverage in my chair which was half reclined. My right leg was bent 45 degrees at the knee and my right leg was 'leaning to the right 45 degrees'. A (moderate compared to what I am used to) cramp showed up. And like always when I straightened my leg (a somewhat painful process, BTW) it went away.

Interesting, I thought. I had not had one of these in a while. So I just reversed positions with the left leg now bent 45 degrees at the knee and tilted 45 degrees to the left. Some amount of time later (20 minutes maybe??) LEFT LEG CRAMP - IDENTICAL in intensity and position in the thigh. Each of these is slightly different and these two (other than L vs. R) were exactly the same.

So when I think back I see two things.

1) I'll bet that EVERY cramp that I have experienced (other than the 2 on a bike where the reason for one is obvious training vs. effort issues) was in this same position as that is now I sit in my EZ chair.

2) That single night time cramp was also when my leg was in a similar position (while sleeping). These cramps have been very rare lately AND SO HAS BEEN MY TV VIEWING IN THE EZ CHAIR!

It would appear to me that for some reason 'leg position' is a major factor in this for me. Very strange.

dave

Riveting

I'm reading this thread because yesterday I had 4 simultaneous (more or less) cramps in both calves, and both inner thighs, at the end of a hot 45 mile ride, riding pretty hard 85-90% FTP. Dehydration could have been a minor factor, I drank 30 oz of Gatorade in the hour prior to the cramps, but it was hot and I was sweating a lot, so I probably should have had more.

But afterwards I realized that I had been in the drops most of that ride (due to a relentless headwind) and sometimes for extended durations (maybe 35 minutes non-stop) which is much longer than usual for me, and I was pushing hard while fully aero. I wonder if hammering while in the aero position for extended duration (with the increased stretch on the hamstrings) could contribute to the thigh and calf cramping?

Carbonfiberboy 

Uh . . . yup.

DaveLeeNC

While I would hardly rule out your speculation regarding positive and your cramps, in my case it was leg position HOURS after exercise that seemed to be a major factor in cramps or no cramps (again many hours after exercise).

dave

klondike300

I get the same inner thigh issues. But for me it's having too low a cadence. In my younger days, I pushed heavy gears on both mountain and the road. Now that I'm closer to 50, I'm forcing myself to ride at a higher cadence. when I do stationary riding, I practice spinning higher RPM's but I still fall into my old habits. I also ride with a slight higher seat position in the past and keep the muscle groups stretched out.

DaveLeeNC

Well, I guess that we can rule out lack of training (against level of effort) and hydration/electrolyte issues.

8 days into a (most unfortunate) stretch of 12 days with ZERO/NADA/NOTHING resembling exercise or effort, on two separate nights while sleeping I have encountered these cramps in my vastus medialis (plus a new one right in the heart of my right hamstring).

I now feel free to go out on 3 hour rides in 95 degree temps with no water :-)

dave