New Ekar GT Groupset
03-01-24, 03:25 PM
#51
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Remember, the OP is only ~”hey this new product exists.”
some paraded for it. I had rain. Is there a No Rain rule?
I think that this product is dumb in multiple ways and ugly in one. Rain is part of life. You keep making it a conversation, and I’ll continue to converse with you, even though we already have a good idea of one another’s perspectives.
There was a time when people thought Chevrolet Avalanches were fashionable, and even when they were new they looked super cheap through my eyes. Rational conclusion: people who are into modern fashion are into things that look cheap. As of late: Champion branded sweatpants? Fashionable. White tee shirts? So fashionable that some people are happy to pay $400+ for them if they have a particular tag inside. There’s no way way that you’re on the internet in 2024 and somehow ignorant to this.
Ekar GT is fashionable. Yeezy groupset.
03-01-24, 03:55 PM
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Personally, I wouldn’t describe it as a fashion statement. It’s a pretty understated modem look (cue pics of old bikes with non-shiny bits) and let’s not forget that it is a bicycle group set and a gravel one at that, so it’s going to get dirty. It’s functional and not really meant to be a fashion display piece.
03-01-24, 04:00 PM
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Actually, that's not a rational conclusion. But, you probably already knew that ...
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03-01-24, 04:16 PM
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Jeaaaazus. I'm not an expert on the English language, but does the concept of "prescient" apply to this 40+ year old sketch and today on these forums?
I'll have to say reading some of these trivial ego-driven picking of nits is both entertaining and dismaying, just like Monty. But read I do, so mea culpa.
I'll have to say reading some of these trivial ego-driven picking of nits is both entertaining and dismaying, just like Monty. But read I do, so mea culpa.
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03-01-24, 04:50 PM
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It’s functional and not really meant to be a fashion display piece.
Because it actually is meant to be a fashion display piece for a currently trendy genre of bicycle from a company known for little else than being fancy. Even if a far off yesterday’s definition of fancy was slots & drillium, today’s fancy is minimalism… see: Tesla- a child’s fever dream.
I can’t fault a company for doing what they have to to remain relevant & profitable. I still think it’s uglier than the worst of any Bauhaus or Brutalist influenced consumer products and couldn’t be saved from my (yes
oh so important & relevant) scrutiny by merely omitting the black finish.I hope for Campagnolo that many people going trail biking think they should have the best possible grouppo for playing in the dirt. Thirteen exotic Italian cogs and one lonely goofy little granny ring. I hope they’re all so uncoordinated that they can’t work two derailers and haptically-challenged that they can’t work Shimano’s brifters without mittens making Campy’s brifters seem essential to them. I hate seeing companies with families depending on their survival fail due to marketing missteps.
It almost definitely would be a huge business mistake if some weak minded high-up at Campy happened upon my dumb ass at Kanza or someplace on my Sugino/SunTour/VO covered 26er with downtube shifters and let me accidentally convince them to go on and devote R&D & marketing money at replicating all of it right down to my beloved BR-MC70 cantis & Symmetric shifter but more polished and actually pushing it on the public expecting more than 30 buyers worldwide. I would love it and would buy that groupset, but I’d also recognise the move as terrible for trying to move units to the greater world trail biking populace.
The majority demand cheap crap. A decade or two in the future they’ll demand cheap bare aluminium with drillium and I’ll have come around to black painted understated gothy hardware by then.
Last edited by MattoftheRocks; 03-01-24 at 05:02 PM.
03-01-24, 05:01 PM
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Those two sentences back to back. Comedy gold. I love it.
so why add the expense of adding a finish that will not-slowly wear off?
Because it actually is meant to be a fashion display piece for a currently trendy genre of bicycle from a company known for little else than being fancy. Even if a far off yesterday’s definition of fancy was slots & drillium, today’s fancy is minimalism… see: Tesla- a child’s fever dream.
I can’t fault a company for doing what they have to to remain relevant & profitable. I still think it’s uglier than the worst of any Bauhaus or Brutalist influenced consumer products and couldn’t be saved from my (yes oh so important & relevant) scrutiny by merely omitting the black finish.
I hope for Campagnolo that many people going trail biking think they should have the best possible grouppo for playing in the dirt. Thirteen exotic Italian cogs and one lonely goofy little granny ring. I hope they’re all so uncoordinated that they can’t work two derailers and haptically-challenged that they can’t work Shimano’s brifters without mittens making Campy’s brifters seem essential to them. I hate seeing companies with families depending on their survival fail due to marketing missteps.
It almost definitely would be a huge business mistake if some weak minded high-up at Campy happened upon my dumb ass at Kanza or someplace on my Sugino/SunTour/VO covered 26er with downtube shifters and let me accidentally convince them to go on and devote R&D & marketing money at replicating all of it right down to my beloved BR-MC70 cantis & Symmetric shifter but more polished and actually pushing it on the public expecting more than 30 buyers worldwide. I would love it and would buy that groupset, but I’d also recognise the move as terrible for trying to move units to the greater world trail biking populace.
The majority demand cheap modern crap.
so why add the expense of adding a finish that will not-slowly wear off?
Because it actually is meant to be a fashion display piece for a currently trendy genre of bicycle from a company known for little else than being fancy. Even if a far off yesterday’s definition of fancy was slots & drillium, today’s fancy is minimalism… see: Tesla- a child’s fever dream.
I can’t fault a company for doing what they have to to remain relevant & profitable. I still think it’s uglier than the worst of any Bauhaus or Brutalist influenced consumer products and couldn’t be saved from my (yes
oh so important & relevant) scrutiny by merely omitting the black finish.I hope for Campagnolo that many people going trail biking think they should have the best possible grouppo for playing in the dirt. Thirteen exotic Italian cogs and one lonely goofy little granny ring. I hope they’re all so uncoordinated that they can’t work two derailers and haptically-challenged that they can’t work Shimano’s brifters without mittens making Campy’s brifters seem essential to them. I hate seeing companies with families depending on their survival fail due to marketing missteps.
It almost definitely would be a huge business mistake if some weak minded high-up at Campy happened upon my dumb ass at Kanza or someplace on my Sugino/SunTour/VO covered 26er with downtube shifters and let me accidentally convince them to go on and devote R&D & marketing money at replicating all of it right down to my beloved BR-MC70 cantis & Symmetric shifter but more polished and actually pushing it on the public expecting more than 30 buyers worldwide. I would love it and would buy that groupset, but I’d also recognise the move as terrible for trying to move units to the greater world trail biking populace.
The majority demand cheap modern crap.
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03-01-24, 05:21 PM
#58
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Anyone who thinks modern high end groupsets look cheap has clearly only seen blurry internet photos of them, because as a former owner of Ultegra R8000 and now-owner of GRX800 and 105 Di2, I can assure you these groupsets neither look nor feel cheap in any way.
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03-01-24, 09:27 PM
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Ooooooo... shiny! give me a break.
P.S. Ekar is named after a mountain near Campagnolo's headquarters.
P.S. Ekar is named after a mountain near Campagnolo's headquarters.
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03-01-24, 09:44 PM
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I own bikes with both Ultegra 8000 and Grx800. I agree, nothing cheap in the feel or appearance of them. It's not even like I don't have some older bikes either, I have a CAAD 5 with Dura-ace 7700. It's just that trends change over time and that the "get off my lawn crowd" doesn't like that. It's not just confined to bicycles, almost nothing stays the same.
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03-01-24, 11:06 PM
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I always feel like I am missing something when I read comments from others about how difficult or dangerous Shimano shifting is.
I have yet to ever curse the cycling gods while trying to shift any of my many bikes over many miles and many years.
It's fascinating, really.
I understand having preferences for one style over another, but the reasons given against Shimano just seem...confusing.
I have yet to ever curse the cycling gods while trying to shift any of my many bikes over many miles and many years.
It's fascinating, really.
I understand having preferences for one style over another, but the reasons given against Shimano just seem...confusing.
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03-02-24, 01:12 AM
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I always feel like I am missing something when I read comments from others about how difficult or dangerous Shimano shifting is.
I have yet to ever curse the cycling gods while trying to shift any of my many bikes over many miles and many years.
It's fascinating, really.
I understand having preferences for one style over another, but the reasons given against Shimano just seem...confusing.
I have yet to ever curse the cycling gods while trying to shift any of my many bikes over many miles and many years.
It's fascinating, really.
I understand having preferences for one style over another, but the reasons given against Shimano just seem...confusing.
I found myself applying the brakes when I was trying to shift. I suspect that if I had bought that bike I would have adjusted to them, but why should I?
And I can't imagine trying to ride with those controls wearing mittens. The lateral motion of the brake lever just annoyed me when I was riding bare handed.
I already had Shimano 7800 brakes on my old Peugeot, and I was expecting that I would like their new group set. I didn't. I couldn't seem to get the hang of it.
When I built up my Lynskey I put Campagnolo EPS on it and have been very happy with their gear. Never an issue with a brake lever that moves sideways. I found the controls intuitive from day one.
03-02-24, 05:37 AM
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I always feel like I am missing something when I read comments from others about how difficult or dangerous Shimano shifting is.
I have yet to ever curse the cycling gods while trying to shift any of my many bikes over many miles and many years.
It's fascinating, really.
I understand having preferences for one style over another, but the reasons given against Shimano just seem...confusing.
I have yet to ever curse the cycling gods while trying to shift any of my many bikes over many miles and many years.
It's fascinating, really.
I understand having preferences for one style over another, but the reasons given against Shimano just seem...confusing.
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03-02-24, 01:05 PM
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I didn’t read the whole thread. It got too stupid.
I ride Ekar, the carbon version. One change I made was that rather than the crankset, I used a 13sp chainring on a Sram Force crank. It works great and looks great.
Older bikes dripping with chrome look great. Polished old aluminum also looks great. The people here arguing that new modern black componentry looks cheap are missing a few key points.
1. 4 arm cranks in polished silver look terrible. They look substantially cheaper than the same ones in black. You may argue that 4 arm cranks shouldn’t exist but they do and they look better in black.
2. Chunky 11-12-13 speed shifters with hydraulic brakes are really hard to make look good. I’ve seen a couple SRAM double tap that have been stripped and polished, they can look good. But that nasty TRP Hylex in silver with gum hoods? It looks like a PT Cruiser (trying to be retro without being retro) I actually have those levers in black and they’re pretty sweet.
3. Rims. They’re deep with discs and they’re black. They also usually have logos all over them. Kinda hard to square that aesthetically with silver neo-retro components.
4. I have a new and several old steel road bikes. You can make modern steel look as retro as you want but few people have that. Most bikes are carbon fiber and semi-aero monocoque beasts. They’d look a little silly with Tulio’s best polishing.
I’ll concede that for road bikes, silver derailleurs always look better. I wish that was a more common option.
Unless you’re planning to rewind the entire industry 30 years, you really can’t complain about black components. For what is modern today, the aesthetic fits.
I miss the anodized 90’s.
I ride Ekar, the carbon version. One change I made was that rather than the crankset, I used a 13sp chainring on a Sram Force crank. It works great and looks great.
Older bikes dripping with chrome look great. Polished old aluminum also looks great. The people here arguing that new modern black componentry looks cheap are missing a few key points.
1. 4 arm cranks in polished silver look terrible. They look substantially cheaper than the same ones in black. You may argue that 4 arm cranks shouldn’t exist but they do and they look better in black.
2. Chunky 11-12-13 speed shifters with hydraulic brakes are really hard to make look good. I’ve seen a couple SRAM double tap that have been stripped and polished, they can look good. But that nasty TRP Hylex in silver with gum hoods? It looks like a PT Cruiser (trying to be retro without being retro) I actually have those levers in black and they’re pretty sweet.
3. Rims. They’re deep with discs and they’re black. They also usually have logos all over them. Kinda hard to square that aesthetically with silver neo-retro components.
4. I have a new and several old steel road bikes. You can make modern steel look as retro as you want but few people have that. Most bikes are carbon fiber and semi-aero monocoque beasts. They’d look a little silly with Tulio’s best polishing.
I’ll concede that for road bikes, silver derailleurs always look better. I wish that was a more common option.
Unless you’re planning to rewind the entire industry 30 years, you really can’t complain about black components. For what is modern today, the aesthetic fits.
I miss the anodized 90’s.
03-03-24, 03:46 PM
#65
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03-03-24, 04:56 PM
#66
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I don’t work for Velo Orange or Jan Heine, so I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything.
It’s just a discussion. My contribution is that the design and finish on these premium priced components do very much evoke a crystal clear sense of the opposite of premium componentry.
If I’m being non-rhetorical and 100% honest, they don’t evoke cheapness- they do just look cheap.
The only way I can understand anyone intentionally kitting their bike up with this stuff is if they intentionally do not socialise with anyone who takes home less than $250k/year, have never driven past housing with rent under $6k/month, and just don’t know what cheap is.
Imagine Maserati releasing a new for 2025 car with two doors, blue-ish clear windows all around, a 95” wheelbase, 5’8” tall, 16” wheels with plastic hubcaps, lift back, single 1.5” exhaust tip, and chrome-backed clear lens Altezza-style lights, but it has a fully carbon unibody & doors, a ZF magnesium-cased 10 speed transmission, and a 3 cylinder engine that revs to 18k rpms. Imagine Gibson selling a Les Paul with an OSB top on a pressure treated green streaked poplar body but has a neck made of certified “old growth” mahogany & rosewood and is priced the same as their Custom Shop instruments. That’s where I’m at with these more-expensive-than-Origin8 components. They don’t look not-cheap at all.
Looks aren’t everything, but they’re not nothing either.
If you love compromised functionality & durability and the look of poverty, that’s very hipster of you and I applaud it so long as you’re fully aware and still just fully in love with the concept of irony. There’s nothing wrong with manbuns, pirate moustaches, lumberjack shirts & boots as office attire, or $10,000 bicycles that look like $100 bicycles and will sound like $100 bicycles after 2k miles of riding in any type of gritty terrain.
At best the concept of black painted blingparts is like that of the VW Phaeton: Stealth Wealth… but nobody bought those.
I cannot fathom what aspect of Ekar GT is, as stated in post #3, a step in the right direction. It seems like a step in a dumb direction. Thirteen ultra thin cogs. At least they gave it a fittingly dumb name.
It’s just a discussion. My contribution is that the design and finish on these premium priced components do very much evoke a crystal clear sense of the opposite of premium componentry.
If I’m being non-rhetorical and 100% honest, they don’t evoke cheapness- they do just look cheap.
The only way I can understand anyone intentionally kitting their bike up with this stuff is if they intentionally do not socialise with anyone who takes home less than $250k/year, have never driven past housing with rent under $6k/month, and just don’t know what cheap is.
Imagine Maserati releasing a new for 2025 car with two doors, blue-ish clear windows all around, a 95” wheelbase, 5’8” tall, 16” wheels with plastic hubcaps, lift back, single 1.5” exhaust tip, and chrome-backed clear lens Altezza-style lights, but it has a fully carbon unibody & doors, a ZF magnesium-cased 10 speed transmission, and a 3 cylinder engine that revs to 18k rpms. Imagine Gibson selling a Les Paul with an OSB top on a pressure treated green streaked poplar body but has a neck made of certified “old growth” mahogany & rosewood and is priced the same as their Custom Shop instruments. That’s where I’m at with these more-expensive-than-Origin8 components. They don’t look not-cheap at all.
Looks aren’t everything, but they’re not nothing either.
If you love compromised functionality & durability and the look of poverty, that’s very hipster of you and I applaud it so long as you’re fully aware and still just fully in love with the concept of irony. There’s nothing wrong with manbuns, pirate moustaches, lumberjack shirts & boots as office attire, or $10,000 bicycles that look like $100 bicycles and will sound like $100 bicycles after 2k miles of riding in any type of gritty terrain.
At best the concept of black painted blingparts is like that of the VW Phaeton: Stealth Wealth… but nobody bought those.
I cannot fathom what aspect of Ekar GT is, as stated in post #3, a step in the right direction. It seems like a step in a dumb direction. Thirteen ultra thin cogs. At least they gave it a fittingly dumb name.
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03-03-24, 06:13 PM
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03-03-24, 08:38 PM
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I'd take that bike any day over a (for example) lugged steel frame adorned with silver-colored ten-speed components. But then, I'm more into riding bikes than treating them as fetish objects.
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03-03-24, 09:31 PM
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03-03-24, 10:31 PM
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Those two sentences back to back. Comedy gold. I love it.
so why add the expense of adding a finish that will not-slowly wear off?
Because it actually is meant to be a fashion display piece for a currently trendy genre of bicycle from a company known for little else than being fancy. Even if a far off yesterday’s definition of fancy was slots & drillium, today’s fancy is minimalism… see: Tesla- a child’s fever dream.
I can’t fault a company for doing what they have to to remain relevant & profitable. I still think it’s uglier than the worst of any Bauhaus or Brutalist influenced consumer products and couldn’t be saved from my (yes oh so important & relevant) scrutiny by merely omitting the black finish.
I hope for Campagnolo that many people going trail biking think they should have the best possible grouppo for playing in the dirt. Thirteen exotic Italian cogs and one lonely goofy little granny ring. I hope they’re all so uncoordinated that they can’t work two derailers and haptically-challenged that they can’t work Shimano’s brifters without mittens making Campy’s brifters seem essential to them. I hate seeing companies with families depending on their survival fail due to marketing missteps.
It almost definitely would be a huge business mistake if some weak minded high-up at Campy happened upon my dumb ass at Kanza or someplace on my Sugino/SunTour/VO covered 26er with downtube shifters and let me accidentally convince them to go on and devote R&D & marketing money at replicating all of it right down to my beloved BR-MC70 cantis & Symmetric shifter but more polished and actually pushing it on the public expecting more than 30 buyers worldwide. I would love it and would buy that groupset, but I’d also recognise the move as terrible for trying to move units to the greater world trail biking populace.
The majority demand cheap crap. A decade or two in the future they’ll demand cheap bare aluminium with drillium and I’ll have come around to black painted understated gothy hardware by then.
so why add the expense of adding a finish that will not-slowly wear off?
Because it actually is meant to be a fashion display piece for a currently trendy genre of bicycle from a company known for little else than being fancy. Even if a far off yesterday’s definition of fancy was slots & drillium, today’s fancy is minimalism… see: Tesla- a child’s fever dream.
I can’t fault a company for doing what they have to to remain relevant & profitable. I still think it’s uglier than the worst of any Bauhaus or Brutalist influenced consumer products and couldn’t be saved from my (yes
oh so important & relevant) scrutiny by merely omitting the black finish.I hope for Campagnolo that many people going trail biking think they should have the best possible grouppo for playing in the dirt. Thirteen exotic Italian cogs and one lonely goofy little granny ring. I hope they’re all so uncoordinated that they can’t work two derailers and haptically-challenged that they can’t work Shimano’s brifters without mittens making Campy’s brifters seem essential to them. I hate seeing companies with families depending on their survival fail due to marketing missteps.
It almost definitely would be a huge business mistake if some weak minded high-up at Campy happened upon my dumb ass at Kanza or someplace on my Sugino/SunTour/VO covered 26er with downtube shifters and let me accidentally convince them to go on and devote R&D & marketing money at replicating all of it right down to my beloved BR-MC70 cantis & Symmetric shifter but more polished and actually pushing it on the public expecting more than 30 buyers worldwide. I would love it and would buy that groupset, but I’d also recognise the move as terrible for trying to move units to the greater world trail biking populace.
The majority demand cheap crap. A decade or two in the future they’ll demand cheap bare aluminium with drillium and I’ll have come around to black painted understated gothy hardware by then.
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03-04-24, 02:25 AM
#72
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Last edited by georges1; 03-04-24 at 02:28 AM.
03-04-24, 08:14 AM
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What all of the retro grouches are missing is what a magnificent engineering feat the Ekar is. Are you aware of the fact that the derailleur cage doesn't move in a linear path?
That is what makes the ratio spacing of rear cassette possible. And it is the cassette spacing that makes Ekar so good. Yes, 5 MTB like lower ratios followed by 8 gears on a corn cob.
Try to make a linear path derailleur work with that cassette. Oh, I know! You don't ride on gravel roads so it doesn't matter to you. Then why do you think your comments are appropriate for a derailleur made for that purpose?
I put a bunch of miles this weekend on gravel roads where the surface was slop and the subsurface was frozen. I'm sure you are going to say something about "who wants to do that?" The answer is I do.
And yes I really mean it when I say that my old Peugeot with a full 531 frame which was a Grand Tour race capable bike when it was new is inferior in every measurable way to my Scylon.
But I keep it to remember that the new is descended from the old, and if bicycles like the Peugeot had never existed likely my Scylon would not either.
That is what makes the ratio spacing of rear cassette possible. And it is the cassette spacing that makes Ekar so good. Yes, 5 MTB like lower ratios followed by 8 gears on a corn cob.
Try to make a linear path derailleur work with that cassette. Oh, I know! You don't ride on gravel roads so it doesn't matter to you. Then why do you think your comments are appropriate for a derailleur made for that purpose?
I put a bunch of miles this weekend on gravel roads where the surface was slop and the subsurface was frozen. I'm sure you are going to say something about "who wants to do that?" The answer is I do.
And yes I really mean it when I say that my old Peugeot with a full 531 frame which was a Grand Tour race capable bike when it was new is inferior in every measurable way to my Scylon.
But I keep it to remember that the new is descended from the old, and if bicycles like the Peugeot had never existed likely my Scylon would not either.
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03-06-24, 11:45 PM
#74
Senior Member
Anyone who doesn't think that bike looks amazing has a, shall we say, unusual taste in aesthetics.
03-07-24, 10:40 AM
#75
Resident PIA
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: City of Oaks, NC
Posts: 848
Bikes: Gunnar Roadie, Look 765 Optimum, Spesh Aethos
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__________________
--
Shad
I knew where I was when I wrote this
I don't know where I am now...
05 Gunnar Roadie Chorus/Record
67'er
--
Shad
I knew where I was when I wrote this
I don't know where I am now...
05 Gunnar Roadie Chorus/Record
67'er
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