wayold

I recently found a nice unused Carbon wheelset for my old rim brake bike. I'm planning to buy a fresh set of tires for it and I'm wondering if I should try going tubeless. The catch is, these are old style wheels, 17mm IW, hooked rims and I'd be running 28mm tires on them. I could do a "ghetto tubeless" set up with rim tape and sealant like I use on my mountain bike, but I think the 70-75 psi pressures I'd need to run might preclude tubeless use.

The safe approach is just to get some light latex tubes, clincher tires and call it a day. But so many have been raving about the benefits of tubeless (and I have appreciated tubeless MTB tires for years) that I'd like to try it on my road bike if it is reasonable in my application.

What's the advice of you folks running tubeless on your road bikes?

icemilkcoffee 

Ghetto tubeless at 75-80 psi is not a good idea. Actually ghetto tubeless is not a good idea in general. Every time the tire pressure runs down (and it runs down a lot), at least some sealant will leak out, either as it runs down, or when you pump it back up.
If you are going to go tubeless, just use proper tubeless rims. Ideally tubeless rims with no spoke holes and don't require taping. ie. Mavic Ksyrium UST, Shimano Ultegra/Dura Ace, Fulcrum etc.

I also don't like carbon rims with rim brakes. But I gather a lot of other people are fine with it.

masi61

If the rims are not tubeless ready, I wouldn’t risk it. Ghetto tubeless conversions could be a real hassle. Modern tubeless rims mount really well and with a good tape job they hold air well. What wheels are you talking about?

Troul 

when it comes to saving money, this is not where I'd chance it.

Tubeless ready rims are what I'd opt for. Maybe use the old set for winter, since sealant tends to be a poor performer in the icy cold temps.

squirtdad

I don't do tubeless, but in reading all the issues with ghetto tubeless on the mechanics forum, if I ever do it would be with tubeless specific rims and tires

good quality non tubeless ready clinchers and latex will give great performance, and a whole lot of less hassle.

surak

Are you going to do any extended braking? Then latex inner tubes are a no-no too, for the risk of them overheating and bursting.

wayold

Thanks guys, that's what I more or less expected. Worth asking though.

For those asking it's a set from PUB Wheels I got during the shutdown sale of Framed Bikes / Pub Wheels / The House. I bought some of their leftover rims and hubs and am having them built up at my LBS. I've also been a bit leary of Carbon rim brake wheels, but for $350 I figured I'd give 'em a try. I know folks will roll their eyes at "no-name" Carbon wheels, but Framed/Pub actually have a pretty good reputation in the north central US going back decades. I'm sorry to see them go.

chaadster

TPU innertubes will deliver the next-best level of performance to tubeless.

wayold

Same heating issues with TPU tubes as with latex on rim brake Carbon wheels?

At least I have some light-ish 85g butyl tubes lying around if latex/TPU are unwise.

wayold

All this talk of overheating tubes brings up another question. In preparation for mounting the Carbon wheels I've gotten a set of Carbon specific rim brake pads (Swissstop Black Prince). Swisstop claim that the compound is effective at limiting temperature increase at the braking surface, but I'm not sure if that's BS. The energy produced by decelerating the bike has to go *somewhere*. Unless they somehow radically alter the thermal conductivity of the pad to suck the heat away from the rim I don't know how much they can do to drop rim temperatures. Anybody know more?

Leisesturm

Tubeless does not change how a tire behaves under pressure. Tubeless don't have a tube (obviously) so they cannot pinch flat, but what causes a pinch flat is the rim hitting the pavement because there is insufficient pressure in the tire to keep it from doing that. Smaller section tires need higher pressure to maintain structural rigidity. It's physics there is no getting around it. Why then would someone want to put 70psi to 75psi in a 28mm tire for any reason, tubeless notwithstanding?

wayold

Because I weigh 85kg. Is 75 psi that unusual on a 28 for a cyclist of my weight?

Troul 

you can plug your data into some tubeless calcs & find what is the recommended PSI.
Sometimes the sidewall PSI rating does not match to the riders weight, & that's when you either have to change tire size, chance an unspec'd PSI, or risk the highest sidewall PSI rating is enough to prevent any unwanted issues.

mstateglfr 

Those are tubeless rims.
And the wheels cost like $140 in December. I bought a set, and then sold em at cost a month later since I just had no need for em.
They seemed perfectly serviceable and others have really liked em.

Russ Roth

Double check, they're probably the same rim brake rims I bought from them as well and as mstateglfr suggests, they should be tubeless compatible, the Pub website shows the 36mm version that are still on the site but sold out are also listed as tubeless. I ended up with one 36mm along with the 45mm pair and the rims are the same profile.

wayold

Well I'm glad somebody won The House lottery. They actually showed the set costing $107 when I ordered, but their inventory system was pretty chaotic there at the end and all I got was a rim. I ended up ordering the mating rim and PUB hubs separately (total cost around $180) and spent another $170 or so getting them built up. Still an OK deal, but you definitely hit the jackpot there. If you don't mind my asking, exactly which wheel set did you get?

wayold

So are you planning on building up the 45s as a set and just keeping the 36 as a spare? I actually got a full set of 36s and 50s and two sets of hubs. I'm seeing how much I like the built up 36mm set before I decide what to do with the 50s.

Russ Roth

I found it early and should have ordered more than I did and kick myself for not. Ended up with a pair of 55mm deep disc rims for the cross bike, 2 sets of 29mm wide 27.5" rims for the wife's bike and a spare pair, a set of 27mm wide 27.5" rims already built with king hubs, and a set of 45mm deep rims for my oldest's track bike, waiting on hubs and spokes to arrive any day for that. Tried later ordering 36mm deep road rims for the middle kid but only one arrived. But I should have ordered two sets of the 45s and an extra set of the cross rims in the first order; not like I won't need them eventually. Also should have just ponied up the extra for the 29" rims for the bike I want to build myself next year but after spending several hundred on the above I couldn't stomach the 200.00 for a set of rims I won't need for a year.

wayold

Just showing my ignorance here. These rims have open holes for the spokes and would need to be taped for tubeless use. How exactly would that be any different than going ghetto tubeless with a non-tubeless-compatible wheel?

chaadster

Not necessarily, no. It depends on the type of TPU and thickness. Some superlights, like in the sub-30g range are not recommended for rim braking, but even a standard TPU is almost half the weight of an 85g butyl and has superior durability and lower rolling resistance.

mstateglfr 

Yeah, that site was atrocious when it came to ordering.
I ordered a Whisky carbon seatpost thats usually $100 marked down to $30 and was charged for it, but never received it. Ordered it twice actually since it didn't arrive with the wheels the first time.
The second time I got an email saying it was removed from my order because it was put of stock.

And the lack of details for basically every product was wild.

I bought the 36mm deep road wheels.

wayold

Don't feel too bad. You could have gone nuts like one guy on the Framed FB group now sitting with 30 rims piled in his living room. Not sure if I'm envious or appalled.

mstateglfr 

Tubeless rim profiles are different from non tubeless profiles. A tubeless rim has a channel in the middle and shelves on each side.

Russ Roth

No clue what to do with it, it let me order the pair put then only shipped one, the 45s are waiting for Novatec track hubs and pillar wing21 spokes. My 12yo is really putting in effort this year to train hard and be competitive for her team so I think she deserves them. I tested the rims with her current 23c challenge tires and the tires measured 25.2mm which puts them at an aero sweet spot for this rim, should give her a decent boost speed wise.

The difference is the shape of the rim's hook and bottom, tubeless have a tight hook spacing which is why tires pop into place and a channel down the middle for helping mount the tire into a tight fit. Ghetto tubeless uses the split open tube to try and fill the extra space that exists in a non-tubeless rim. On a mtb its probably easier to get away with, wouldn't try it at road bike pressures. But I believe these rims are tubeless compatible. Track bikes don't use brakes so I'll just use latex tubes and not worry about it.