Show Us Your 650B Conversions
#901
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,503
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7349 Post(s)
Liked 2,474 Times
in
1,437 Posts
@bikemig, I spread two 120 frames to 130. I think it's OK to do this.
@gugie, your links to Park tools don't work for me.
@gugie, your links to Park tools don't work for me.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#902
Hoards Thumbshifters
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Signal Mountain, TN
Posts: 1,157
Bikes: '23 Black Mtn MC, '87 Bruce Gordon Chinook, '08 Jamis Aurora, '86 Trek 560, '97 Mongoose Rockadile, & '91 Trek 750
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 246 Post(s)
Liked 338 Times
in
193 Posts
#903
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,790
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times
in
1,935 Posts
Unless the stays are identical on both sides, one side will bend more than the other. Many bikes have an additional indent on the drive side chainstay to provide chainring clearance, and that makes the stays bend differently.
Likes For JohnDThompson:
#904
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,802 Times
in
2,286 Posts
@gugie, your links to Park tools don't work for me.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#905
Senior Member
I know I've shared this elsewhere, but perhaps not here.
I use a Park FFG-2 alignment tool, marked as you see here, to precisely spread and align the rear triangle as I go. Knowing the amount of hysteresis in typical Chrome Moly or 531 rear stay tubing to be around 20%, I stop adjusting the alignment at 130mm and continue spreading to about 165 - 170mm, as Andy_K suggested here. Then, just to make sure, I use the string check to verify correct centering. If that is off at all, I have an old broom handle with a 'C'-shaped notch on one end that I use with a medium sledge hammer to correct the offset. This has always worked for me.*
*
I use a Park FFG-2 alignment tool, marked as you see here, to precisely spread and align the rear triangle as I go. Knowing the amount of hysteresis in typical Chrome Moly or 531 rear stay tubing to be around 20%, I stop adjusting the alignment at 130mm and continue spreading to about 165 - 170mm, as Andy_K suggested here. Then, just to make sure, I use the string check to verify correct centering. If that is off at all, I have an old broom handle with a 'C'-shaped notch on one end that I use with a medium sledge hammer to correct the offset. This has always worked for me.*
*
I was looking at the Park FFG-2 alignment tool online. $108 for a set - might be worth it if this method allows for some finesse. Using this tool set in combination with string alignment may be something I would try. The current spacing on my Trek 710 is 122mm that I spread to 130mm by hand when installing the rear wheel. It's a bit of a struggle. If I could get the spacing to 126mm + that would make it pretty easy to install the 130mm wheel.
One question. Once the Park Tool FFG-2 tools are tightened into each drop out, do you then spread the drop outs by turning the large cylindrical portions of the tools using channel locks?
#906
Full Member
The FFG-2 is used to make dropouts parallel after rear end has been re-spaced and aligned. The cylinders are turned by hand, you then manipulate the handles to align the cylinders.
Last edited by fliplap; 12-05-21 at 08:33 AM.
#907
Old Boy
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,127
Bikes: Mostly 1st-generation, top-of-the-line, non-unicrown MTBs/ATBs: All 1984 models: Dawes Ranger, Peugeot Canyon Express, Ross Mt. Whitney (chrome), Schwinn High Sierra, and a 1983 Trek 850.
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 984 Post(s)
Liked 1,715 Times
in
611 Posts
The dropouts themselves are too pliable to be used as place from which to spread the frame, at least with this tool which isn’t solid all the way across. There’s the old nut threaded rod method, but you’re better off with the 2x4 strategy, or better yet the Park FFS-2.
The FFG-2 is used to make dropouts parallel after rear end has been re-spaced and aligned. The cylinders are turned by hand, you then manipulate the handles to align the cylinders.
The FFG-2 is used to make dropouts parallel after rear end has been re-spaced and aligned. The cylinders are turned by hand, you then manipulate the handles to align the cylinders.
I realize this is outside the intended scope for this tool, but it doesn't damage the dropouts or the tool itself. The results speak for themselves - every one of my modified frames is perfectly aligned.
As always, YMMV.
*
*
*
__________________
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
#908
Full Member
I stand corrected. Sounds like it works. I’ve never liked the idea of levering off of the dropout versus the stay. Not the way I’d do it, but I also have access to more appropriate tooling.
#909
Old Boy
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,127
Bikes: Mostly 1st-generation, top-of-the-line, non-unicrown MTBs/ATBs: All 1984 models: Dawes Ranger, Peugeot Canyon Express, Ross Mt. Whitney (chrome), Schwinn High Sierra, and a 1983 Trek 850.
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 984 Post(s)
Liked 1,715 Times
in
611 Posts
But in this particular case, I analyzed the strength of the tool against the resistance of the rear triangle assemblies, identified the differential resistance of the DS stays, and determined that I should use the string alignment method throughout the process. The troglodyte approach of using a sledge hammer and broomstick to sort of equalize the stresses in the assembly was my only real contribution to the existing body of knowledge.
Thank you for taking the time to question my assertions and prompt me to re-examine my methods. I appreciate the respect with which you did this, and would welcome any PM communications in the future.
*
*
*
__________________
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
#910
Junior Member
Yes it is...
It's an decent fork, quality is very good, finish is good, has appropriate mounts in all the right places etc. The downside is the same as most mass-market forks, in that it's sturdier* than it really needs to be, but for the amount of money it costs compared to a custom fork (with chrome finish) you can't really complain and it's one of the few options available in that offset and with a 1 inch steerer.
* The ride isn't as cushy as some of the nicer forks I own, but it's not so much of an issue with squishy 42mm tyres.
It's an decent fork, quality is very good, finish is good, has appropriate mounts in all the right places etc. The downside is the same as most mass-market forks, in that it's sturdier* than it really needs to be, but for the amount of money it costs compared to a custom fork (with chrome finish) you can't really complain and it's one of the few options available in that offset and with a 1 inch steerer.
* The ride isn't as cushy as some of the nicer forks I own, but it's not so much of an issue with squishy 42mm tyres.
#911
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Denver Metro, CO
Posts: 392
Bikes: 1972 Fuji The Finest | 1990 Bianchi Giro | 1999 LeMond Buenos Aires
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 303 Times
in
134 Posts
1972 Fuji The Finest
Will do a build thread eventually as it has a story to tell. Test ride today to check out brakes/shifting etc. Ultimately need to decide whether to keep the short stem with the shorter top tube and the narrow bars compared to my normal setup. But nice riding setup so far!
Likes For AJI125:
#912
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Durango, CO
Posts: 493
Bikes: too many old steel bikes
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked 938 Times
in
176 Posts
Grand Record 650b conversion
Here is my artistic spin and build circa 1973 Moto Grand Record). @gugie did the frame modifications, braze-ons, and front rack. I built the wheels and bike. Plus, I added the painted lugs, lug lining, and box lining.
Likes For Andy Antipas:
#913
Old Boy
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,127
Bikes: Mostly 1st-generation, top-of-the-line, non-unicrown MTBs/ATBs: All 1984 models: Dawes Ranger, Peugeot Canyon Express, Ross Mt. Whitney (chrome), Schwinn High Sierra, and a 1983 Trek 850.
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 984 Post(s)
Liked 1,715 Times
in
611 Posts
Here is my artistic spin and build circa 1973 Moto Grand Record). @gugie did the frame modifications, braze-ons, and front rack. I built the wheels and bike. Plus, I added the painted lugs, lug lining, and box lining.
*
*
*
__________________
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
#915
tantum vehi
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 4,440
Bikes: More than I care to admit
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1167 Post(s)
Liked 992 Times
in
491 Posts
Will do a build thread eventually as it has a story to tell. Test ride today to check out brakes/shifting etc. Ultimately need to decide whether to keep the short stem with the shorter top tube and the narrow bars compared to my normal setup. But nice riding setup so far!
__________________
1970 Gitane TdF; 1973 Gitane TdF
1979 Trek 710; 1981 Trek 412; 1981 Trek 710
1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1985 Specialized Allez SE; 1988 Specialized Sirrus; 1989 Specialized Rock Combo
1984 Ross Mt. Hood
1988 Centurion Ironman Expert
1991 Bridgestone RB-1
1992 Serotta Colorado TG
2015 Elephant NFE
1979 Trek 710; 1981 Trek 412; 1981 Trek 710
1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1985 Specialized Allez SE; 1988 Specialized Sirrus; 1989 Specialized Rock Combo
1984 Ross Mt. Hood
1988 Centurion Ironman Expert
1991 Bridgestone RB-1
1992 Serotta Colorado TG
2015 Elephant NFE
#916
tantum vehi
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 4,440
Bikes: More than I care to admit
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1167 Post(s)
Liked 992 Times
in
491 Posts
Here is my artistic spin and build circa 1973 Moto Grand Record). @gugie did the frame modifications, braze-ons, and front rack. I built the wheels and bike. Plus, I added the painted lugs, lug lining, and box lining.
__________________
1970 Gitane TdF; 1973 Gitane TdF
1979 Trek 710; 1981 Trek 412; 1981 Trek 710
1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1985 Specialized Allez SE; 1988 Specialized Sirrus; 1989 Specialized Rock Combo
1984 Ross Mt. Hood
1988 Centurion Ironman Expert
1991 Bridgestone RB-1
1992 Serotta Colorado TG
2015 Elephant NFE
1979 Trek 710; 1981 Trek 412; 1981 Trek 710
1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1985 Specialized Allez SE; 1988 Specialized Sirrus; 1989 Specialized Rock Combo
1984 Ross Mt. Hood
1988 Centurion Ironman Expert
1991 Bridgestone RB-1
1992 Serotta Colorado TG
2015 Elephant NFE
Likes For mountaindave:
#917
Full Member
#918
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Durango, CO
Posts: 493
Bikes: too many old steel bikes
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked 938 Times
in
176 Posts
Fender Lines
Thank you Dave. I think this is my forth attempt at fender lines? Practice makes perfect, but I gotta say that monsieur gugie modifications made getting reasonable fender lines much easier.
#919
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Durango, CO
Posts: 493
Bikes: too many old steel bikes
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked 938 Times
in
176 Posts
Radios No. 16 headlight
I have modified it with "guts" from a modern LED headlight, and there is a thread somewhere on Classic & Vintage that shows what I did.
Likes For Andy Antipas:
#920
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Denver Metro, CO
Posts: 392
Bikes: 1972 Fuji The Finest | 1990 Bianchi Giro | 1999 LeMond Buenos Aires
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 303 Times
in
134 Posts
Thanks Dave. But you’re mostly just excited it’s half step gearing I bet (whether consciously or subconsciously I’m not sure)! 53-49-36 though, what am I thinking with all these hills around here!
VeloLumino’s excellent guide goes a long way for fenders! And the Fender Line thread was a great inspiration. Mostly doing it for the second time and being patient does the trick. Needed the extra front stay with no rack or anything and tried to more or less ratio it positioned the same as gugie’s Vintage Peugeot he posted on there. Almost didn’t post anything yet with my crashed bar tape from my old bike haphazardly wrapped on there, but still not sure about stem/bars so figured I’d recycle it for now (and bonus it kinda matches the decals)!
VeloLumino’s excellent guide goes a long way for fenders! And the Fender Line thread was a great inspiration. Mostly doing it for the second time and being patient does the trick. Needed the extra front stay with no rack or anything and tried to more or less ratio it positioned the same as gugie’s Vintage Peugeot he posted on there. Almost didn’t post anything yet with my crashed bar tape from my old bike haphazardly wrapped on there, but still not sure about stem/bars so figured I’d recycle it for now (and bonus it kinda matches the decals)!
#921
tantum vehi
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 4,440
Bikes: More than I care to admit
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1167 Post(s)
Liked 992 Times
in
491 Posts
Anton is good at what he does and his tutorials are impressive. It may be a bit snobbish, but I feel like good fender lines help tie the entire bike together. I’m not an architect or designer, but one can sense when an object is out of proportion, or it’s lines out of balance.
Vive la conversion!
__________________
1970 Gitane TdF; 1973 Gitane TdF
1979 Trek 710; 1981 Trek 412; 1981 Trek 710
1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1985 Specialized Allez SE; 1988 Specialized Sirrus; 1989 Specialized Rock Combo
1984 Ross Mt. Hood
1988 Centurion Ironman Expert
1991 Bridgestone RB-1
1992 Serotta Colorado TG
2015 Elephant NFE
1979 Trek 710; 1981 Trek 412; 1981 Trek 710
1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1985 Specialized Allez SE; 1988 Specialized Sirrus; 1989 Specialized Rock Combo
1984 Ross Mt. Hood
1988 Centurion Ironman Expert
1991 Bridgestone RB-1
1992 Serotta Colorado TG
2015 Elephant NFE
#922
tantum vehi
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 4,440
Bikes: More than I care to admit
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1167 Post(s)
Liked 992 Times
in
491 Posts
Thank you Dave. I think this is my forth attempt at fender lines? Practice makes perfect, but I gotta say that monsieur gugie modifications made getting reasonable fender lines much easier.
__________________
1970 Gitane TdF; 1973 Gitane TdF
1979 Trek 710; 1981 Trek 412; 1981 Trek 710
1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1985 Specialized Allez SE; 1988 Specialized Sirrus; 1989 Specialized Rock Combo
1984 Ross Mt. Hood
1988 Centurion Ironman Expert
1991 Bridgestone RB-1
1992 Serotta Colorado TG
2015 Elephant NFE
1979 Trek 710; 1981 Trek 412; 1981 Trek 710
1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1985 Specialized Allez SE; 1988 Specialized Sirrus; 1989 Specialized Rock Combo
1984 Ross Mt. Hood
1988 Centurion Ironman Expert
1991 Bridgestone RB-1
1992 Serotta Colorado TG
2015 Elephant NFE
Likes For mountaindave:
#923
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,802 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Likes For gugie:
#924
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
Likes For ThermionicScott:
#925
Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: 68 Nguyễn Huệ, Bến Nghé, Quận 1, Thành phố Hồ Chí Minh 70000
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Could you tell me where I can get fenders like the one pictured on your bike? I have tried searching but must be looking in the wrong places.