Campagnolo hub flange damage?
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Campagnolo hub flange damage?
I noticed these gouges in the hub on a wheel I just picked up. Is this safe at all? It is a rather nice campagnolo record high flange hub. If not, anyone know of a place I can find a replacement hub shell?
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Looks like crud (with salt?) and water collected at the bottom of the flange while the bike was sitting stationary for a long time. I'm you're lucky, it's just dirt that might wipe or polish off, but if it ate deep enough into the aluminum, the hub could be too questionable to use........
Just proves that one should never put away their bikes "wet"......
Just proves that one should never put away their bikes "wet"......
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Not a metallurgist in any form, and we have at least one I know of here, but I am with Chombi about this one. I wouldn't be looking about for a replacement hum shell, unless you find worse damage when it gets the ol' eagle eye from your friends here.
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Looks like crud (with salt?) and water collected at the bottom of the flange while the bike was sitting stationary for a long time. I'm you're lucky, it's just dirt that might wipe or polish off, but if it ate deep enough into the aluminum, the hub could be too questionable to use........
Just proves that one should never put away their bikes "wet"......
Just proves that one should never put away their bikes "wet"......
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That's a weird one and it looks like it's on both flanges too, eh?
Can you take a caliper to it to see if it's truly thinner in those spots? It looks almost like it's ground down, like road rash.
I have something similar on a couple of aluminum/alloy rims in the shop. It's full-on eaten into it.
Can you take a caliper to it to see if it's truly thinner in those spots? It looks almost like it's ground down, like road rash.
I have something similar on a couple of aluminum/alloy rims in the shop. It's full-on eaten into it.
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That's a weird one and it looks like it's on both flanges too, eh?
Can you take a caliper to it to see if it's truly thinner in those spots? It looks almost like it's ground down, like road rash.
I have something similar on a couple of aluminum/alloy rims in the shop. It's full-on eaten into it.
Can you take a caliper to it to see if it's truly thinner in those spots? It looks almost like it's ground down, like road rash.
I have something similar on a couple of aluminum/alloy rims in the shop. It's full-on eaten into it.
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A couple years back we had a thread on a Campag NR equipped bike which had been stored in a garage or shed right next to the sea. The salt air had corroded right through the anodising on the alloy parts giving the fittings the appearance of a serious skin disorder. When allowed to go long enough the crusts can build up well above the original surface of the metal.
Last edited by juvela; 08-05-16 at 08:03 PM. Reason: spellin'
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So is material missing from those regions a problem? They are jagged in texture. Is this wheel safe to ride or should I find a new hub shell?
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So is material missing from those regions a problem? They are jagged in texture. Is this wheel safe to ride or should I find a new hub shell?
If it were me, I would not take the chance with that hub and seek another as quickly as I could.
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But just judging from that last picture, I'd say there is quite a bit of damage and loss, and the hub in that picture looks like a goner, to me.
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I'd ride that.
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I think the only way to tell would be to disassemble the wheels...remove the spokes, and smooth down the aluminum and re-polish...then measure the thickness of the flange to see just how much material has been lost.
But just judging from that last picture, I'd say there is quite a bit of damage and loss, and the hub in that picture looks like a goner, to me.
But just judging from that last picture, I'd say there is quite a bit of damage and loss, and the hub in that picture looks like a goner, to me.
Last edited by spock345; 08-06-16 at 09:22 AM.
#15
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Without physically seeing it (the images are pretty good, though) I'd say that's a combination of ageing and corrosion. Aluminium alloys can and do age and forgings like these tend to "flake" a bit.
It also looks as if you have the beginnings of the same problem elsewhere on the hub shell.
Finding a replacement shell might be a headache just because the cups, cones & axles were all freely available for a long time so anyone with an odd shell (back in the day, anyway) just made it into a serviceable hub :-)
It depends what you are willing to spend time doing.
You could strip the hub and get it re-anodised and rebuild with good quality spokes and probably 2BA brass washers under the spoke heads, then tie and solder - doing that, load is spread a little by the washers, you've protected the material that is left in the badly affected area and slowed or stopped any corrosion elsewhere.
If you rebuild as it's currently built, x3, the load on the hub flange is sufficiently tangential that I don't think the flange will let go, but if you tie and solder, even if it does, and even given that it's the gear side, the wheel likely won't go disastrously out of true and you won't have the heel of a spoke floating about near the block and chain to potentially cause mischief - the tie / solder should keep that under control.
It's a gamble and it's a lot of faff so it depends how determined you are to save the hub.
It also looks as if you have the beginnings of the same problem elsewhere on the hub shell.
Finding a replacement shell might be a headache just because the cups, cones & axles were all freely available for a long time so anyone with an odd shell (back in the day, anyway) just made it into a serviceable hub :-)
It depends what you are willing to spend time doing.
You could strip the hub and get it re-anodised and rebuild with good quality spokes and probably 2BA brass washers under the spoke heads, then tie and solder - doing that, load is spread a little by the washers, you've protected the material that is left in the badly affected area and slowed or stopped any corrosion elsewhere.
If you rebuild as it's currently built, x3, the load on the hub flange is sufficiently tangential that I don't think the flange will let go, but if you tie and solder, even if it does, and even given that it's the gear side, the wheel likely won't go disastrously out of true and you won't have the heel of a spoke floating about near the block and chain to potentially cause mischief - the tie / solder should keep that under control.
It's a gamble and it's a lot of faff so it depends how determined you are to save the hub.
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You're seeing unchecked corrosion. Since the flange is still together despite the large static load imposed by the spokes, it's reasonable to infer that the damage isn't serious. Tension doesn't spike when riding unless the rim is subjected to a serious load, so there's not much difference between a wheel sitting around and one in use. You should make an effort to prevent further corrosion, which may help, but there's no assurance.
The hub is at the beginning of the end, but it could be eons before the end happens. As for safety -- what's the worst that can happen? A small section may fatigue and fail, but the effect is similar to breaking a spoke or at worst a few. Spokes break all the time and nobody talks about it being unsafe (because it isn't) and your hub's safety is in that range. If the flange should fail, the likely consequence will be inconvenience, not injury.
Others' are saying it's a gamble, and it is, but you're gambling the chances of years of good service against a bit of inconvenience. A gamble you take every time you ride more than a mile from home, and a gamble I'd make with about the same amount of thought as I'd give dropping a nickle into a Las Vegas slot machine.
The hub is at the beginning of the end, but it could be eons before the end happens. As for safety -- what's the worst that can happen? A small section may fatigue and fail, but the effect is similar to breaking a spoke or at worst a few. Spokes break all the time and nobody talks about it being unsafe (because it isn't) and your hub's safety is in that range. If the flange should fail, the likely consequence will be inconvenience, not injury.
Others' are saying it's a gamble, and it is, but you're gambling the chances of years of good service against a bit of inconvenience. A gamble you take every time you ride more than a mile from home, and a gamble I'd make with about the same amount of thought as I'd give dropping a nickle into a Las Vegas slot machine.
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i mean, how many spokes are effected? if its just 4, its not like it would be disastrous, right guys? seems pretty unlikely that even 1 would break through the hub.
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Well I have decided to try to find a replacement ASAP and in the mean time only use this wheel to go get coffee on weekends a mile from my house, over flat terrain.
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At that rate the wheel will probably outlast you.
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No good, what you are seeing is called Intergranular corrosion, bad very bad. Because you're only seeing the surface damage The damage goes way beyond the surface and goes deep into the aluminum alloy. If you were to disassemble the hub and have it inspected (X-ray) would see exactly how deep the corrosion goes. I for one would not ride it, it would become a donor hub. You can find a decent clean replacement Hub easy enough.
Lesson to everyone, clean your bikes often, and a bit of wax every now and then goes a long way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergranular_corrosion
https://www.nace.org/Corrosion-Centr...lar-Corrosion/
Different Types of Corrosion: Intergranular Corrosion - Causes and Prevention by WebCorr Corrosion Consulting Services,Corrosion Short Courses and Corrosion Expert Witness. corrosion types, corrosion forms, pipe corrosion, generalized corrosion, pitt
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No good, what you are seeing is called Intergranular corrosion, bad very bad. Because you're only seeing the surface damage The damage goes way beyond the surface and goes deep into the aluminum alloy. If you were to disassemble the hub and have it inspected (X-ray) would see exactly how deep the corrosion goes. I for one would not ride it, it would become a donor hub. You can find a decent clean replacement Hub easy enough.
Lesson to everyone, clean your bikes often, and a bit of wax every now and then goes a long way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergranular_corrosion
https://www.nace.org/Corrosion-Centr...lar-Corrosion/
Different Types of Corrosion: Intergranular Corrosion - Causes and Prevention by WebCorr Corrosion Consulting Services,Corrosion Short Courses and Corrosion Expert Witness. corrosion types, corrosion forms, pipe corrosion, generalized corrosion, pitt
Lesson to everyone, clean your bikes often, and a bit of wax every now and then goes a long way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergranular_corrosion
https://www.nace.org/Corrosion-Centr...lar-Corrosion/
Different Types of Corrosion: Intergranular Corrosion - Causes and Prevention by WebCorr Corrosion Consulting Services,Corrosion Short Courses and Corrosion Expert Witness. corrosion types, corrosion forms, pipe corrosion, generalized corrosion, pitt
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In my experience, the bearing races and other parts of Campy Tipo hubs are much crummier quality than Nuovo Record and they are not as smooth and fail sooner. I would not build a wheel set using them...waste of money IMHO. Personally, I'd sand and buff that corrosion off your hub and see how much metal I had left and then make a decision. Honestly, it doesn't look that bad. Too make it easier you could probably remove a couple of spokes, clean it up then put the spokes back in and retrue. The article on intergranular corrosion sounds bad, but its not at all clear to me that that is what it is.
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In my experience, the bearing races and other parts of Campy Tipo hubs are much crummier quality than Nuovo Record and they are not as smooth and fail sooner. I would not build a wheel set using them...waste of money IMHO. Personally, I'd sand and buff that corrosion off your hub and see how much metal I had left and then make a decision. Honestly, it doesn't look that bad. Too make it easier you could probably remove a couple of spokes, clean it up then put the spokes back in and retrue. The article on intergranular corrosion sounds bad, but its not at all clear to me that that is what it is.
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My experience with Tipo's is not the same as @davester. When the bearings and surfaces are good, it is hard to tell the difference from a riders perspective. IMHO, Campy Record or Tipo hubs do not qualify as being in the "crummier quality" range for hubs.
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