LeaderBike

Leader bike is listening. Many options. I am passing along all the info to see what we can come up with. It is possible we will make something right to away to have something close to what is being asked for. some of the more complicated designs and specs can take a little longer. Looks like we will drop the NJS style crown but on the more traditional frame offer 1" standard type headset in both threaded and thread less with either steel or carbon fork with steel tube. On the more rugged looking bike make it 1-1/8" standard thread less to fit any 1-1/8" fork or a BMX style steel fork. Please keep pushing what you would like to see more. there is still time to modify.

Brian

leo2525

most def i think the track frames you have are nice i was just sad to have heard i missed out in gettin a red 725tr frame. As for color choices a light red, a hot pink, a bare metal oh and of course a light blue...nice.

don't even mess with the 725tr,seriously! i think thats your problem (if you have one) you change you frames too much make new models fine but don't make such big changes to existing models...and the best part of your bikes are the prices (except 735 nice bike could go lower)

LupinIII

dunno how valuable my opinion is as I'm not in the market for a frame, but here's some musings from me...

first of all, I have an old time trial bike with the 24" front wheel and 700c rear. looks tight as ****, but it is as uncomfortable as it is cool. and I don't like the ones with anything bigger than a 24" front, it loses a lot of what makes it so interesting my making the difference in wheel sizes less. Though I guess it'll sell well to posers, but they're not feasible for rides longer than 5 miles i'd say

I don't get going with pricey NJS headsets on a non-NJS bike. But I guess I don't know if I understand the purpose of this bike. Is this for a low price point or higher end?

I would say go gusseted, make flashy colors available like the preorder,normally offer the black and white like you usually do. if possible, offer it in raw too so that people can get it powdercoated themselves or painted. have the decals separate so that owners can put them on where they want (or at all). do a track geometry, it's easy enough to find affordable steel bikes with road or semi-track geometry. tire size is hard to tell. skinny tires look fit and with track geo it should just be skinny tires. on the other hand some people may want to run fenders and brakes. dunno what call to make here. oh and since this is steel offer it with that lugged fork you make for the $800 lugged frame. It won't be standard I guess depending on price (can't imagine it being more than making threaded carbon forks), but have it available. that fork is hot as hell

cc700

720: give it more options. rack and fender mounts at a minimum, canti and derailleur mounts wouldn't hurt either. people that want style aren't going to opt for the frame with cable routing. if you're going to make a ss frame, make it versatile.

721: make the dropout inserts replaceable if they aren't already? give it a solid rear seatstay bridge, don't drill it for brakes. don't give it fender mounts either. if you want to keep it drilled for brakes and fenders, beef it up and make that bike the trick bike.

725: make it lighter or make it cheaper.

735: make it cheaper or give the the tubes more shape to increase lateral stiffness while keeping weight down. it may be butted to hell and back and the stiffest, lightest thing around- but you aren't going to sell it for nearly 400 dollars without a fork with its current looks. not with the competition looking as hot as it does now.


basically i want the 721 to be the trick bike and the 725 to be the budget track bike.

i don't know, i think i'd sooner buy a novara buzz or a swobo folsom than build up a 720, i'd sooner buy a tk3 than build up a 735, and i'd sooner buy and break a cheaper frameset like the eigth inch scrambler or a motobecane jury than pay for the 725 thinking it won't break. add that i find the 721 to look boring, and i think the lineup is a strikeout with me- which is a shame because i wanted a 2008 735 more than basically any other frame.

then again, maybe that's just because i can test ride all of the above competitor bikes cept the bikes direct bikes... and they are significantly less expensive.

iansmash

the 725TR is rock solid and probably the best buy out of the bunch for sure

SSBully

Don't just make something right away to get it out to market! Haste makes waste as they say, and you don't want something half-hearted, just to have it. It will leave a sour taste in some people's mouths for the brand. There are already a lot of non Leader riding or owning fools on here that'll trash talk the product without ever having thrown their leg over one, and you don't need to give them anymore ammo!

NO, NO, NO to the 1" idea, especially threadless! In the threadless design, you have ultra-crappy(Wal-mart bikes) headsets, or ultra-expensive(Campy, King, NJS cert'ed stuff)headsets to choose from! That leaves people with the choice of ****e or expensive on their headset, that they then need special tools to adjust and install! Threaded carbon fork?! OK? Threadless 1" headsets are just as few and far between for choices! Why limit your rider base like this? I know, among other things, that I didn't buy a KHS Flite 100 because of the 1" headset. After having it narrowed down to that frame, I went in search of headsets, and said, "This is crap for selection, and good luck finding anyone that has something reliable and fairly inexpensive in inventory!" That and the fact that they use an awkward sized, small seattube.

On the more "rugged" design, why not just modify the toptube on one of your MTB designs and give it track dropouts? Those are made to beat the hell out of!

sp00ki

A TITANIUM frame would definitely put you on the map in a good way. A less expensive round tubed version and a "pro" with aero tubing. Cheap aero frames really aren't desireable when stacked up to the competition because you haven't established the leader name as anything other than a follower. fuji and bianchi already make aero track rames from aluminum that the riders love. they don't, however, make titanium frames. Ti track frames are something that could help the brand stand out if done properly...

no offense, but when you ask most riders what they think of leader, they usually lean in the direction of "crap budget frame".
that's because you're competing with pretty powerful forces in the industry without offering a single thing they don't already do perfectly. if i wanted to break into the car industry, i certainly wouldn't start by going up against volvo...

absolutely false. shimano offers three levels of threaded headset at a great price, with dura ace topping the list at an easily obtainable $70-80. Even campagnolo record headsets are easily bought new for $70. the miche primato is usually $40-50... FSA makes a decent $50 sealed threadless headset as well, etc etc etc...
This is certainly BS-- there's tons of options out there for threadless stuff, whether it be high end or mid range.

oh christ.

well, i guess it makes sense now...

mbhakti

Agreed. The 725 is awesome, it would just be great if it came in more colors and without the decals. It sucks to pay more just to get it without the labels. That aside, this frame is great.


The aluminum fork paired with the 725TR doesn't match the styling though. The 806tr fork has a much better profile for this frame. The aluminum frame tapers down by the ends which makes it look odd with the oversized tubes of the frame. If there was an option to pair the 725tr and 806tr with a slight discount together that would be awesome.



And in the bright barenuckle colors mentioned before...

mchesna

i agree with everything the guy above me said

ADSR

Wow. I'd love to have a GTB type design. Those things are so cool.

SSBully

Ti is dead. Just ask litespeed. Ti is also the most horrible metal choice for a track frame. Track frames are supposed to be ultra stiff and light. While Ti is light it's about as stiff as a wet noodle. So that idea will not put them on the map in a good way.

Most riders that have owned and regularly ride them, or elitist snobs that have never rode one for more than 2 minutes just to see what their buddies was like?


And why would anyone in their right mind spend $50 on a technilogically inferior headset that's more difficult to install properly, and have to buy the tools needed to do it in the first place? It's still a foolish move and a headset design, that still offers few options compared to the 100's available for 1 1/8" threadless.


What makes sense now? I'd love to hear your arrogant assumptions of me, who I am, and what my knowledge base is. It was no more of a silly idea than the original one of taking a frame design and gusseting it to make it be something it's not. Just like my analogy with their MTB designs. Save your opinions of me for yourself, because they are ALL based on ignorance knowing that you know nothing about me.

rrooster

I suspect Lynskey, Merlin, Titus, Roark, Serotta, and all the others I can't recall off the top of my head, would beg to differ. Admittedly, they all do hand-made titanium work, but titanium frames can be and are made as stiff and light as high-end carbon.

I think the issue here would be making frames of that caliper at an affordable range for most people. Charge lists their ti track frame for I think 2 grand, give or take. Dunno how good it is.

LupinIII

i question if the market for Ti is really there. it's an expensive material that people seem to see as old hat. CF looks new and flashy and can be sold for huge prices despite a relatively low materials cost.

maybe make an aero cf/alu track frame on the more affordable end? Idunnolol

SSBully

Light, yes! Stiff, no way in hell! All of the above companies are boutique brands, and the 1st 4 are definitely hand-made, custom builders. Not even in the same category though.

If it was that great, and as stiff as other materials, don't you think that you'd see 1 maybe 2 at world level track events? I can't recall a track racer riding Ti to a championship. I could be very wrong on that, though.

rrooster

https://www.bicycling.com/gear/detail...2005-0,00.html <-PROOF, HAHA!! ::shrug:: I'm just saying it can be done, but for a major chunk of change. As for why its not used in pro track... beats me. Maybe its better for road usage or mtn bikes (black sheep, there's another I forgot, or Moots).

ADSR

Hey! What if a titanium frame were built of a larger-sized tubing? Then it could be stiff as well as light.

Not that a titanium frame is likely going to happen, but it's only going to feel flexy if it's the same size tubing as a steel frame.

bryyando

follow ian's design. a pursuit style frame but with a normal bikesdirect geometry feel is something anyone could go for. add the color options and instead of making the frame threadless or threaded isnt it possible to just have an extra long fork and get a bike shop to cut it? isnt that how the kilo frameset is sold? but make the rear wheel have a very tight clearance such as an ocean street pacific. it has a tiny indent to slide the wheel even closer. a setup like that would sell huge to the fixed gear crowd that ride for looks. also the fork would sell better if it was lugged. price for this should be cheap like the kilo maybe around 200 for the frameset of frame and fork, and possibly have a metal upgrade for more money such as a step up from 520 to 631? if this frame competed with the kilo as the described handsdown this frame would sell more unless the fixed gear trend changes.

LeaderBike

For standard type bike (not bmx)

1. One inch headtube for NJS or Standard fork crown? (Leader can get Tange headsets)
2. road or track geometry like the 725TR? (but with shorter top tube)

So far we will do around 12 normal colors and maybe another 12 special colors to choose from. Top tube will have no slope at all. Leader will make the frame in six sizes. 49cm to 61cm all center of BB to top of seat tube. for top of top tube deduct 1.5cm. Seat clamp will be intigrated.

LupinIII

like i said before I don't know if i totally understand fitting it for njs when the frame is not njs. it seems like it would just limit parts selection and make for a big markup

track geometry always seems desirable. I can't recall too many all steel frames with a track geo in the price segment you guys generally compete in. just make sure there's no compact geo at all with steel kthx

iansmash

TRACK GEOMETRY! 74/75 degrees, tight clearances...this will be very popular for sure...match the 725tr geometry and put a tight rake fork (30-35 rake)

chase.

if you make the frame for NJS headsets, you really ought to make a matching steel fork and sell the whole thing as a package, with one or two headset options. that way you can design the frame geometry around the fork that you use, instead of having people take their chances buying whatever 1" threaded fork they can find.

maybe take a cue from BD and their affordable frame/fork kilo sales.

LeaderBike

Ok there will be absolutely no NJS headset etc, on the new frame. It will take a standard one inch threaded or thread less headset. Leader will offer a Tange or FSA headset with the frames as an option. For sure track geometry. No decals with decal kit included. You get to choose paint color as well as decal kit color choice. Fork options in both threaded and thread less with steel seer tube: 1. Carbon straight blade fork 2. lugged wide straight blade steel fork. BB 68mm English, seat post 27.2mm, rear spacing 120mm, intigrated seat clamp system, material is a high end type heat treated double butted 4130 chromolly steel. It will cost a bit more than Reynolds 520 but it will be better and lighter. New type of tubeset leader will use does not come availible in any Reynolds material. Reynolds also would take three five months to deliver raw material alone. Tang steel also imposes a similar problem. This new chromolly steel tubeset Leader will use is similar to the aluminum hydroform style that is very strong as well as beutiful.

iansmash

I don't give a **** who makes the tubes to be honest...as long as the quality is there...Lets get real, there is always an equivalent out there w/ no name brand that's cheaper.

LeaderBike

What do you guys think of these Leather saddles? I already have one and the quality of this bike seat is incredible. How much would you pay for one of these?

iansmash

not a fan, definitely not