goldfinch

Let me start by saying that I have changed many tires. I change my tires on my bikes if I get flats, if I want to swap them out, or whatever. I change my spouse's tires. My family's tires. Some are tough. Some are easy. But they all get changed.

I just bought new wheels for my road bike. I took off the old wheels, took off the tires. Now I am putting the tire on the new front wheel. The tires are Michelin pro. The rims are aerohead rims. I can't for the life of me get the tire on. It isn't even close to going over the edge of the rim.

What do I do? I could barely get one side on to start. What am I going to do if I get a flat? Should I risk using the tire levers?

This has almost reduced me to tears.

goldfinch

Impatience won over on the front tire, I used the levers. Not happy. I am surprised I didn't pinch flat.

Now going to put the cassette on the rear, I still have to mount that tire.

FBinNY 

Start by getting all the facts in front of you so you'll know if it's worth trying harder.

Try mounting one side only without a tube. This should be fairly easy if you move the tire to the center (deepest part) of the well. If it's still very hard, you're pretty much SOL, and should consider other tires or rims or both. If it's borderline, then you need to do everything you can to make the best of it.

Start with the thinnest rem tape you can find. I prefer filament tape since it's much thinner than the cloth stuff most folks buy (yes 1mm makes a difference). There are also some plastic strips that are also very thin.

Not it's a matter of technique. Inflate the tube until it's fully round but not stretched, insert the valve, and stuff the tube well up into the tire. Let air back out to relax the tube, and start mounting the tire starting opposite the valve and working towards it. When it gets tough, stop, let more air out of the tube (if any) then go back to where you started, and push the tire to the middle of the rim, and push it forwards around the rim while also pushing to the middle of the rim. This method brings maximum slack to the far end, and if you're at all good at it (sometimes it takes 2 passes) you'll have pushed enough slack forward to bring it over at the valve.

Now (and this is critical) push the valve back into the tire to pull any part you might have trapped under the tire out, then pull the valve back out to seat everything where it needs to be. Finish by massaging the tire back around the rim to equalize it's position so it seats evenly when inflated.

Remember, the key is that the second side is always slightly harder than the first side, so if you can't get the first side on fairly easily, you're doomed in advance, but if one side goes on, the only thing preventing the second side is poor technique.

kenji666

Having strong thumbs helps.

cny-bikeman

FB laid out exactly what I do and how I trained other mechanics and cyclists. Many people start inserting the 2nd bead at the valve (and I used to do so) but ending there is much better, as that is the one place one cannot push the tire bead into the center well of the rim. In the case where the valve stem interferes somewhat with pushing over the last part very little is lost by finishing to one side of the valve.

goldfinch

Thanks for the tip on ending at the valve stem. I didn't know about that. I had to work really hard to get the first side of the tire on, putting major dents in my thumbs, and on was careful to move the first side to the middle of the rim. I also used the technique of letting out air as I worked around the wheel. On the second wheel I followed FB's instructions by ending at the valve. I still needed the levers. This isn't surprising given FB's comment about whether it was hard to get the first side of the tire on the rim.

Given that I paid a lot of money for these hand built wheels this makes me unhappy. I did manage not to pinch the tube who knows what will happen on the road.

I have 650 wheels and use 23s for tires. Any ideas on tires? My Michelins only have about 2000 miles on them so I am not thrilled with changing them. But, better than being stranded. I did email the builder to let him know about the issue.

FBinNY 

Most experienced mechanic use the base of the thumb adjacent to the middle of the palm to lever tight tires over. When I first started in the bike Biz, back in the Bronze Age, The two most experienced mechanic had large callouses there, big enough to make sort of an edge which could catch and lift the tire much the same way a tire jack does.

If you use your thumbs to mount tires all day, the supporting muscles get tired and it's easy to dislocate or sprain it. That's an injury that's painful and slow to heal since you keep reinjuring it during the work day.

hamiltonian

I'm going to indulge myself in a brief brag, because today is the first time I replaced a tire without using a tire lever at all. It was on a wheel I had someone build for me, but the tread was backward. I didn't want to risk pinching the perfectly good tube, so I deflated the tire, took it off the rim, reversed it, and put it back on all with my bare hands.

The trick is to gather slack by squeezing the beads into the centre well of the rim. This is the core info that FBinNY provides, but I think it helps to focus on the key fact that makes it work.

zacster

See my thread here: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-one-tight-fit

I was changing a flat with that same tire today, except it was on a different wheel after I had given up on getting it on the other rim. I was able to do it without any tools other than my pump.

goldfinch

Interesting thread.

I hope I don't have the problem you had, where it doesn't matter what tire you use, the rim is just too big. I don't know what to do in that case. These are hand built wheels by a respected builder. Anyway, I emailed the builder to see what he suggests.

FBinNY 

I don't know what the builder can do, except to rebuild on deeper rims. One practical thing you can do is change the rim tape to something thinner like the rim bands from Continental (I believe) or fiberglass reinforced filament tape, as I suggested in my earlier post. You'll be amazed at now much difference 1mm cam make.

The other option, and at this point your best option, is to choose tires carefully, avoiding all tires with a reputation for tight fits.

shelbyfv

If you can find the VAR tire jack, it is small enough to carry on the bike.

werwer2012

I am new to reapairing bikes and don't want to appear ignorant but I didn't know that there was a certain way that the tire had to go on as far as the tread is concerned.

goldfinch

He used veloplugs, no rim tape.

I emailed him and asked for alternative tire options. Of course, with 650 wheels there are not a lot of alternatives.

goldfinch

Some tires are directional and some are not. The directional tires should have an arrow on it to show what direction to mount it. Mostly important with mountain bike tires.

goldfinch

Nice! It looks like they are in production. I'll consider it. I've seen the Kool Stop tire jack before, but they are huge and would be tough to carry on the bike.

My thumbs still have dents in them today!

werwer2012

Thanks for the information. Learn something new every day here.

jim hughes

The 'tire jack' works, I have to use it with my snow tires. Some combinations of rim and tire are just murder to mount, no one seems to know exactly why and there might be various reasons involving dimensions and materials.

hamiltonian

The tire in question was a Panaracer Pasela TG, and the wheel had an XT hub which is asymmetric, so I couldn't just flip the skewer and mount the wheel the other way around. I'm surprised my wheelbuilder didn't notice, since he's an old hand.

But yeah, it's one of those little details that matter. You want a directional tread pointing the right way so it can shed water properly.

Airburst

No you don't, a bicycle can't go anything like fast enough to need the treads to shed water - the contact patch of the tyre is so small compared to a car tyre that hydroplaning is impossible. Road bike tyres don't need tread, they have it because people think slicks don't grip well. Offroad, with knobby tyres, tyre orientation might well make a difference, but not on tarmac.

FBinNY 

Velo plugs are a good alternative, since there's no increase in diameter. I wasn't sure if they made them in the right depth for aero profile rims.

So now it's tires and technique. One thing about pushing the tire toward to the center that many don't do wall is pushing the slack forward as you go. This takes a bit of practice, but you have to use your thumbs in a sliding motion to push the tire forward as you work toward the valve. The tire tend to try to back to the side of the rim, where the diameter is larger if you let it cancelling your effort. Si it's important to maintain forward tension until you get to the valve and finish mounting.

contango 

I've always found getting the first bead into place is relatively simple - the problems for me are more getting a folding tyre to stay in one place given I only have two hands to hold it.

The second bead can range from tricky to all but impossible. I used exclusively Marathon Plus tyres for a good couple of years and they were a devil to get on - in the end I used levers to get the last 12" or so onto the rim because my thumbs just weren't strong enough. When I got a flat I did the same. Then when I swapped them for Durano Plus tyres I had the exact same issue and used the levers again for the last 10-12".

When one of my tubes had a very slow leak in it I re-read my book on bike maintenance and it said to start putting the tyre on opposite the valve and work towards the valve (I'd remembered it the wrong way around, and started at the valve). Doing it that way made it much easier and meant I could get both beads on with my hands.

Using levers to get the tyres on isn't ideal but I've done it probably half a dozen times and never pinch-flatted anything so far.

Bill Kapaun

My Serfas Seca & Panaracer Stradius Sport tires have an arrow and no tread.
It's my understanding that the orientation of the plies may determine if a tire is directional or not.

Airburst

Ah, that makes sense, I presume the plies are laid up in such a way that the tyre rolls more easily one way than the other, or something? The idea that a bike will hydroplane if it has the tyres on backwards is still incorrect, either way.

FBinNY 

Bicycle tires are made with plies laid at 45° bias, so the main body plies don't care either way. However if there's a belt ply under the tread it might have some kind of orientation, but I can't see how it would change anything. But my lack of imagination on this doesn't mean that the arrow is meaningless.

OTOH, while it's true that hydroplaning is impossible on bike tires, both because of crowned shape which cuts through water and the size of the contact patch, tread does make a difference.

On dry roads with a dusting of sand or fine gravel, tires with a fine tread, similar to the the fine linear grooving or herringbone on many tubulars provide escape routes for the sand and reestablish contact faster than plain crowned tires do. The trade off is that they have slightly higher rolling resistance because there's more distortion in the rubber as they roll.

I'm not sure that the grooving that's fashionable on tires today provides the same dry traction benefit, because it's usually too far apart, and far off to the side to make a difference.

We've become obsessed with minimum rolling resistance, and have made it such a priority that we've somewhat neglected the other key element of bicycle tires which is traction, especially cornering and braking traction, which may be one reason we see more unexplained one man crashes in the pro peloton these days.