Who still makes sub 23c clincher tires?
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#27
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skilasw -
Cycles Grand Bois in Japan offer 23 mm which measure 22 installed:
https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/T700_F23_SS.html
Cycles Grand Bois in Japan offer 23 mm which measure 22 installed:
https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/T700_F23_SS.html
#28
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The people at Rene Herse have done some interesting studies on tire width vs speed, including with 20mm tires: https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-m...es-are-slower/
Bike Radar has also done testing, and some other outlets as well. Basically the results have shown that in lab conditions, 25mm-28mm is the faster width range, faster than narrower tires. In real-life conditions where suspension and traction also contribute to overall speed, going up to around 32mm is ideal, especially if using a wider rim to match the tire width for an aerodynamic profile. This is why you see pro teams going up to the 28mm-32mm with aero rims now: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/p...nce-tyre-tech/
Obviously as a vintage rider, speed is not my primary concern - I will use the tire width appropriate for the bike I have. But just know that your feeling that 20mm is faster has been debunked, and is just a feeling.
Bike Radar has also done testing, and some other outlets as well. Basically the results have shown that in lab conditions, 25mm-28mm is the faster width range, faster than narrower tires. In real-life conditions where suspension and traction also contribute to overall speed, going up to around 32mm is ideal, especially if using a wider rim to match the tire width for an aerodynamic profile. This is why you see pro teams going up to the 28mm-32mm with aero rims now: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/p...nce-tyre-tech/
Obviously as a vintage rider, speed is not my primary concern - I will use the tire width appropriate for the bike I have. But just know that your feeling that 20mm is faster has been debunked, and is just a feeling.
Not that wider tires need wider rims, but are helped by wider rims both in terms of rolling resistance and especially aerodynamics.
There were riders back in the day who rode ~29mm Del Mundos all the time and swore by them, even after narrower tires had become de-rigeur.
I imagine those wider lightweight tires may have mopped up more thorns, but today there are tubeless tires/rims/sealants to mitigate punctures.
Wider tires allow lower tire pressure so tread wear is slower, meaning the tread can be thinner for less weight and rolling resistance.
Lastly, the more-rigid forks on all of today's disc-braked bikes are tolerable when wider/softer tires are used, all of which comes together in the modern road bike.
Some 23mm tires are much narrower than others, especially those whose molds were designed with wider rims in mind.
I bought some heavily-discounted Vittoria Zaffiros in the 25mm size that measure only 23mm on narrow rims, so perhaps the 23mm version of that tire is well short of 23mm width. I also had some "23mm" Hutchinson Fusion2 tires that measured short of 22mm wide on narrow rims.
Note that a narrower rim does actually reduce the tire's rolling diameter a bit, as well as the mounted width.
Last edited by dddd; 11-26-23 at 06:57 PM.
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#29
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Yes, this is part of it. The old Vento rims are pretty narrow, so they bulge up tires. Ive ran 23s on this bike with other rims, but that was the absolute limit.
#30
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The people at Rene Herse have done some interesting studies on tire width vs speed, including with 20mm tires: https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-m...es-are-slower/
Bike Radar has also done testing, and some other outlets as well. Basically the results have shown that in lab conditions, 25mm-28mm is the faster width range, faster than narrower tires. In real-life conditions where suspension and traction also contribute to overall speed, going up to around 32mm is ideal, especially if using a wider rim to match the tire width for an aerodynamic profile. This is why you see pro teams going up to the 28mm-32mm with aero rims now: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/p...nce-tyre-tech/
Obviously as a vintage rider, speed is not my primary concern - I will use the tire width appropriate for the bike I have. But just know that your feeling that 20mm is faster has been debunked, and is just a feeling.
Bike Radar has also done testing, and some other outlets as well. Basically the results have shown that in lab conditions, 25mm-28mm is the faster width range, faster than narrower tires. In real-life conditions where suspension and traction also contribute to overall speed, going up to around 32mm is ideal, especially if using a wider rim to match the tire width for an aerodynamic profile. This is why you see pro teams going up to the 28mm-32mm with aero rims now: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/p...nce-tyre-tech/
Obviously as a vintage rider, speed is not my primary concern - I will use the tire width appropriate for the bike I have. But just know that your feeling that 20mm is faster has been debunked, and is just a feeling.
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#31
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Keep in mind that many of our bikes are made for non-wider tires. AND they certainly look nicer with 23s or less.
Not the op’s bike.
Not the op’s bike.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
#32
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Nowadays, when 25mm is considered to be small, you do need to be thinking about what will fit.
In my case, the short reach Campy brakes with the pads at the top of the slots is a hint that things are tight.
The bike is currently fitted with some Conti tires that measure 25mm, and there's just not room for anything bigger.
of course, it could be worse.
Some bikes were built with extremely tight clearances, such as this Masi track bike (upper left photo)...
Steve in Peoria
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The Veloflex rides very well too. I thought I would never be happy on anything under 25mm, but the Veloflex Corsa at 23mm proved me wrong.
Of course all this discussion is moot because the OP needs SUB 23mm tires.
#34
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I've got a bike built in 1987 that has tight clearances. That was the fashion then, and that was when 20mm tires were popular.
Nowadays, when 25mm is considered to be small, you do need to be thinking about what will fit.
In my case, the short reach Campy brakes with the pads at the top of the slots is a hint that things are tight.
The bike is currently fitted with some Conti tires that measure 25mm, and there's just not room for anything bigger.
of course, it could be worse.
Some bikes were built with extremely tight clearances, such as this Masi track bike (upper left photo)...
Steve in Peoria
Nowadays, when 25mm is considered to be small, you do need to be thinking about what will fit.
In my case, the short reach Campy brakes with the pads at the top of the slots is a hint that things are tight.
The bike is currently fitted with some Conti tires that measure 25mm, and there's just not room for anything bigger.
of course, it could be worse.
Some bikes were built with extremely tight clearances, such as this Masi track bike (upper left photo)...
Steve in Peoria
I put 23c Michelins on now which are okay, but I pine for the old days when you cold get narrow Kevlar bead tires!. It would be nice to see some better quality 19c to 23c tires out there, but demand might be low.
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I played contact sports growing up. We all knew that dark jerseys made us look smaller. So - does making the rim black, the rim (and tire) appear smaller translate into the tire being smaller? Do we have to factor in rim color when pairing marginal tires with our very close frames? I'm riding an old race bike with GP4 rims. If I went silver, would me tubbies still fit?
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The clearance between the tire and the underside of the Masi fork crown looks like a bit more than the 1/32" mentioned in the photo caption, but it is pretty close. The photo reminded me that I still have the fork from my Bianchi Eco Pista, bought new (via employee discount program) in 1983, sitting in a box in the basement. (When I built the bike, I replaced the fork with a generic chrom-moly one that was drilled for a brake.)
The underside of the original fork's crown was crudely filed at the factory with a half-round file, increasing the tire clearance significantly, before it was painted. No doubt they'd already built a run of forks for the Eco Pista before someone pointed out that the cheap tubulars the bikes were to be sold with wouldn't fit under the crown.
The underside of the original fork's crown was crudely filed at the factory with a half-round file, increasing the tire clearance significantly, before it was painted. No doubt they'd already built a run of forks for the Eco Pista before someone pointed out that the cheap tubulars the bikes were to be sold with wouldn't fit under the crown.
#37
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Another bike has the 25mm version on Mavic MA-2 rims (also about 20mm wide). The tires are about 23mm wide, but 25mm higher than the rim.
I expect that the tires are still available in 23mm.
Steve in Peoria
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