WGB 

There seems to be different (internal) versions of the Record and Gran Sport shifters. Alternatively, over the years people have lost spacers and replaced them with odds and ends.

I checked Mr. Google and searched here and didn't find one with the same internal parts as this set.

I'm wondering about the compressible lock washer (top row beside screw) and wonder if that is an extra piece or alternatively, I'm missing one.

Can anyone advise if I have the correct assembly order?

martl

yes you have! just dont use that snap-ring-thingy!

sced

What are those black things in the photo to the left of the levers? They look like rubber instead of steel.

martl

They *should* be plastic...

sced

Oops...me bad. The ones I'm using came from a clamp-on I bought in 1977, so mine are steel

jdawginsc 

Thats interesting. I thought they were always plastic.

WGB 

Thank you all!

I'll install now

repechage

prior to the lever restyle, the #174 washer was metallic. In the mid 1970’s, the easiest way to get to braze on shift levers was to drill away the “rivet” upset from a clamp-on set, buy the #174’s.

with the restyle and redesign, the cable guides on the backing plates went away, the lever friction scheme went to mostly plastic. The plastic versions of the 174 can work with the earlier parts but is subject to being fidgety.

the later designs work well enough but I find them having a notchy feel, they were designed to be assembled dry. Campagnolo for a while provided 2 lock washers per side to assist in achieving compression.

Maybe this was the opening for many in the peloton to migrate to the Simplex retrofriction levers? Much to Campagnolo’s dismay? They did come up with their own retrofriction levers before the Record C Era, those early levers often sell for strong sums and were hard to locate back then in addition.

About 1985, I encouraged the shop owner to buy up the earlier style compression parts. He did and we made many a racing customer happy. The Simplex assemblies were hard to get at the time.

juvela

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as regards Gran Sport and its Valentino, etc. predecessors there are a number of variants which date from the 1960's and somewhat into the 1970's era which never got into a catalogue

this may be because they were introduced following catalgoue Nr. 14 of 1960 and superseded by the time of the launch of catalogue Nr. 15 in 1967

...or it could be that they were never offered to the public - available only at the OEM level

began a thread to discuss them here -


https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...a-experts.html

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martl

true the parts list drawing shows "661" - the plastic rings - for the brazed-mount version; the clamp-on version doesn't have those, the function is held by the rings attached at "660" and yes,all of those i've seen were metal, i think bronze or brass (?) may be wrong here!

WGB 

i assembled them last night onto my Batavus.

Unfortunately, the levers (both levers) slip under load. As soon as I release the shifter(s) the slowly slide back to the small chain wheel and the smallest cog on the freewheel (position of least tension). This is with both locking nuts (604/! in the diagram) fully tightened.

Since this occurs with both shifters, I believe that something is either assembled incorrectly, or both levers are missing a part.

I have a spare set of the washers, (part 174 in the diagram). if I place those spare washers face-to-face with the part 174 washers already installed, would that be a solution?




I have added a photo of the shifters as mounted in case that matters.

WGB 

I should say I have seen the suggestion on line that grease can be added to the internals to help shifting. I haven't done that but can if needed.

WGB 

I just saw that @repechage said "they were designed to be assembled dry". If so, that takes care of the grease option.

Mr. 66

Washer or are they convex spring? Did you try the same piece flipped? I think I tried a washer under the thumbscrew, I don’t recall if that worked or if I did something different. I wonder if a thin washer would work under the branded retainer plate.

WGB 

Mr. 66

I'll try that and thank you!
I believe they are just washers but will test that.

repechage

the plastic parts were to be dry.
your metal washer looks a bit messy, I would address that, the chrome outer washer- note it has a very slight chamfer- it is to compress the spring keyed steel washer- look for deformation and if convex, place it “bulge” out. And a bit of grease in the lever outboard bore and “cup” - the engagement is at the max interior diameter of the lever.
I really prefer the all metal parts.

WGB 

Sadly, even after cleaning all parts with alcohol they still don't work.

It seems that there is lateral play in the shifters. By that I mean even after tightening the bolt as tight as safe, the individual shifter can move slightly, side to side. It seems that while the rubber washer is on fully, there is a thin sliver between the rubber and the silver plate (part 611/2) where it doesn't fit tight to the silver plate.


I wonder if these are band-on shifters that have been "repurposed" as brazeon shifters.

Does that matter?

WGB 

Update: I see references to a split washer being used between the bolt and the lock washer.

I think I will get two and see if that works.

If not, I will need a new set of shifters.

Edit:
I found that I have a single rebuilt kit and it has a split washer!

repechage

that black plastic washer is probably brand X. Campagnolo’s later plastic version was warm cream colored after the metallic. No doubt thicker. There should not be play. The plastic also compresses a bit, the original metal does not.
‘the lever interface shape and dimensions were the same till the end.
‘the rebuild kit you have is a Japanese assembly. States Japan on the washer, might check the thickness for grins.
I was short these washers once and went to an industrial hardware store, found what I needed.

a possible issue is that the braze on fitting is not exactly correct. Campagnolo made them but other companies did also, Silva, many others. All the same? Good question.
if I wanted to add a washer under the ringed screw, I would look for a schorr serrated cupped washer. A McMaster or Grainger buy a box of 100 for a reasonable price item.