Schwinn Sprint bike is SO DAMN HEAVY
09-03-23, 02:02 PM
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On the same note, how about the early Cannondale road bikes? I have a '84 road bike and boy is that heavy. At 30+lbs it's a killer on hills but it rides nice. When did Cannondale and others trim the weights on there bikes?
09-03-23, 02:45 PM
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Yeah, not sure how someone came to the conclusion that Schwinn was done in the early 1980s. That’s just factually incorrect. By the mid to late 1980s, Schwinn was coming out with some of their best stuff.
There were definitely problems on the horizon, however.
There were definitely problems on the horizon, however.
09-03-23, 02:55 PM
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I grew up in Suburban Chicago, until I left for college in 1981. It was at that time that the Schwinn dealerships there were folding, and bike shops that sold things like Trek, or Nishiki, or pretty much anything else, were taking over. I cannot remember what year the Chicago plant closed, but there were a lot of angry people, and for awhile I was afraid to have a Trek.
09-03-23, 03:08 PM
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Finally found it:
After a labor strike in 1980-81, the Chicago factory was closed in 1983.
09-03-23, 06:40 PM
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Schwinn bikes and management can get our members typing, me included. In the original post, @Lotus907efi thought that his Schwinn Sprint weighed close to 40 lbs. But we don't know if Lotus907efi weighed it on an accurate scale or just looked up Schwinn Sprint, and found the Electroforged version from the mid '70's and took that to be the weight of his fully lugged imported Sprint.
But this got the ball rolling.
The bike business is interesting. If you didn't already read "No Hands: The Rise and Fall of Schwinn", get it. For me I was able to fill in with some of my experience that I knew from working at a Schwinn Dealership in the early '80's. It is also available used and I was able to reserve it from my county library system.
But this got the ball rolling.
The bike business is interesting. If you didn't already read "No Hands: The Rise and Fall of Schwinn", get it. For me I was able to fill in with some of my experience that I knew from working at a Schwinn Dealership in the early '80's. It is also available used and I was able to reserve it from my county library system.
09-03-23, 07:31 PM
#31
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Might not be the most popular take --- but when you really think about it --- Schwinn scammed America and made tons of money doing it. Lead pipe bikes with proprietary cheap cranksets and sold at a premium price.
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09-03-23, 07:39 PM
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Mine weighs 32#. I bought it for a trainer. I ride it mainly on flat roads and don't have to lock it up when I'm through.
09-03-23, 07:59 PM
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09-04-23, 03:12 AM
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Super Sport and Sport Tourer owners might disagree with this assessment. The SS crank forging while heavy is on the indestructible side. As a kid, it was not uncommon at all to encounter loose crank arms on those new fangled 3 piece cranks, and how did one lube them? I consider the Ashtabula crank on my 73 SuperSport to be a positive feature, although I did change the chainrings.
09-04-23, 05:46 AM
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Before the 1970s, the U.S. market for adult lightweight bikes was effectively nonexistent. When I got my first tubular-tire-equipped racing bike in 1964 in my home town of New Haven, I knew or knew of every local rider who owned a European 10-speed bike---all 30 or 40 of us. And New Haven was unusual for the time in having a bike shop that carried French, Italian, and English racing and touring bikes. Most U.S. towns the size of New Haven would have had no such shop.
Yes, the electroforged frames were heavy, but thanks to their near-indestructibility, Schwinn was the first company in the world to be able to offer a lifetime frame warranty, to the despair of all their competitors. And, while the significance of the labeling was debatable, adding the "Schwinn Approved" mark to their components and accessories was reassuring to customers. Thanks to Schwinn's deserved reputation for quality and reliability, in the '60s and '70s and into the '80s, being awarded a Schwinn franchise was the dream of almost all bike store owners in the USA.
As we know, their dominance led to complacency, and they were too slow in responding to the rapid changes that took place in the 1980s (to say nothing of the later generations of the Schwinn family skimming cash off the top). But during their heyday, Schwinn had unilaterally forced all bicycle and component manufacturers who wished to compete in the independent bike store market to up their game.
Last edited by Trakhak; 09-04-23 at 05:52 AM.
09-04-23, 08:09 AM
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It's unfair to look at bikes over 35 pounds being a "scam" prior to the 70s. That's just what bikes weighed in America for non-weirdo European fancy racer people.
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09-04-23, 10:42 AM
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All Schwinns were heavy. Even the Paramounts. There is a discussion of the subject in the Schwinn chapter of “ The Custom Bicycle” where it was detailed how stiffness and durability were emphasized over weight. There was no discussion of the effect on ride quality.
09-04-23, 11:48 AM
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With all the talk of the depressed C&V market, I've got a tonnage of them to play with. Thinking of a Rustoleum spraybomb jobbie on an SLX tubed Merckx, complete it with Schwinn headbadge and Varsity decals. Sue me Eddy.
09-04-23, 12:22 PM
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And remember, in the same book, Cino Cinelli mentioned that he was experimenting with a new standard race bike design based on the use of "26-inch wheels" (unclear exactly what size he meant), and had had some tires and rims in that size custom-made, all in the quest for building a stiffer bike.
I know that there are people who believe that "ride quality" is inherent in certain bike frames, just as there are people who believe that vinyl records have a hard-to-define sound quality that makes them superior to digital forms of reproduction. But 60 years of riding high-end bikes, first steel and then aluminum and carbon, has convinced me that knowing what tube set was used to build a given bike tells me essentially nothing about how the bike will ride.
See, for example, the Bicycling! magazine article from the late '80s that SpeedofLite posted a couple of months ago where a number of riders compared two Trek models, one aluminum and the other steel, that shared identical component groups and geometries.
Not only did all the riders prefer the aluminum bike to the steel one, citing, among other differences, the smoother ride of the aluminum bike on rough pavement, but the writer of the article was moved to include a paragraph where he lamented what he predicted to be the inevitable disappearance of the venerable steel frame, supplanted by aluminum and carbon.
Which is, of course, precisely what happened. Yes, in the world of Bike Forums, steel bikes get talked about and even ridden, although principally by males over the age of 50, but most bike stores stock few or none. It would be hard to come up with reliable figures, but I suspect that the proportions of people riding steel versus aluminum and carbon are nearly identical to those of people listening to vinyl versus digital sources.
09-04-23, 12:32 PM
#41
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@Lotus907efi , thanks for posting a picture of the bike in question. Schwinn often built bikes on the heavy side because they had a Lifetime Guaranty. When they came up with that policy, people that spent their hard earned money on something, like a bike, wanted some assurance that their bike was going to last. It was especially good when parents were going to buy a bike for their son that had been known to break things. There was also the ability to hand bikes down to younger siblings. All of this, and Schwinn's dealer network worked to their advantage up until the bike boom.
The Schwinn momentum carried them through the bike boom but market forces cause them to change their product line and they started importing bikes and we saw the LeTour with a fully lugged frame. Schwinn continued to outsource bike manufacturing and then reshored to a manufacturing plant in Mississippi with a line of fully lugged frames.
@steelbikeguy I worked in a Schwinn dealership in the early '80's and tried to steer customers into Panasonics, Fuji's or if they really wanted a Schwinn, a LeTour. But sometimes a customer just wanted a Schwinn Continental. I know it is hard to believe, but it is true. Some of these were the easiest sales because the customer came in knowing what they wanted.
Lotus907efi, your bike is not an Electoforged frame like the Continental, it looks to be fully lugged. I cannot tell if it was manufactured in Taiwan or Mississippi. It should be substantially lighter than a Continental regardless of where it was manufactured. It does have some steel components, and it uses straight gauge tubing, probably 1020 steel in an effort to keep the price down at the expense of weight. I believe that you will find that this bike has a weight that is similar to lower end bikes of the time.
It looks to be in good condition aside from the Grab-On handlebar padding, the seat and the tires. Of course, we don't know how true the wheels are and if the cabling needs to be replaced.
If it is your size, you might try it and see if you like it. If not, pass it along. I had an experience where I picked up a Schwinn World made for Schwinn by Giant in Taiwan for a flip, after getting it all fixed up, I took it for a ride and was surprised at how nicely this bike rode with steel rims and inexpensive components. I had to let it go, but I did like it.
The Schwinn momentum carried them through the bike boom but market forces cause them to change their product line and they started importing bikes and we saw the LeTour with a fully lugged frame. Schwinn continued to outsource bike manufacturing and then reshored to a manufacturing plant in Mississippi with a line of fully lugged frames.
@steelbikeguy I worked in a Schwinn dealership in the early '80's and tried to steer customers into Panasonics, Fuji's or if they really wanted a Schwinn, a LeTour. But sometimes a customer just wanted a Schwinn Continental. I know it is hard to believe, but it is true. Some of these were the easiest sales because the customer came in knowing what they wanted.
Lotus907efi, your bike is not an Electoforged frame like the Continental, it looks to be fully lugged. I cannot tell if it was manufactured in Taiwan or Mississippi. It should be substantially lighter than a Continental regardless of where it was manufactured. It does have some steel components, and it uses straight gauge tubing, probably 1020 steel in an effort to keep the price down at the expense of weight. I believe that you will find that this bike has a weight that is similar to lower end bikes of the time.
It looks to be in good condition aside from the Grab-On handlebar padding, the seat and the tires. Of course, we don't know how true the wheels are and if the cabling needs to be replaced.
If it is your size, you might try it and see if you like it. If not, pass it along. I had an experience where I picked up a Schwinn World made for Schwinn by Giant in Taiwan for a flip, after getting it all fixed up, I took it for a ride and was surprised at how nicely this bike rode with steel rims and inexpensive components. I had to let it go, but I did like it.
As someone with kids, we have luckily been fortunate enough that we just keep swapping bikes between friends and neighbors who have kids our same age.
KIDS BIKES even today, are insanely heavy. The reason is clear. Kids are inherently trying to destroy everything in sight. They test the material strength boundaries for everything they own and then some (see the number of towel bars ruled from my bathroom walls)
09-04-23, 02:37 PM
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..but then again you might need Silver Rock volume knobs on your hi-fi to hear it....
09-04-23, 02:50 PM
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I bet if you kept the book for a week under a transparent plastic pyramid with your CD's between the pages they sound better/worse, depending on whether the CD's were placed with their labels toward the front or back cover...
..but then again you might need Silver Rock volume knobs on your hi-fi to hear it....
..but then again you might need Silver Rock volume knobs on your hi-fi to hear it....
09-04-23, 06:05 PM
#46
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To continue the side-discussion about vinyl records briefly:
Just a note about dbx Discs. I own a few of the dbx-encoded LP's and a dbx decoder, and there's no question in my mind that, had CD's not come out at about the same time, dbx-encoded records would have supplanted conventional vinyl in the audiophile market. (See the review video below.) Come to think of it, it was probably the dbx record listening experience that turned me off conventional vinyl more or less permanently.
Just a note about dbx Discs. I own a few of the dbx-encoded LP's and a dbx decoder, and there's no question in my mind that, had CD's not come out at about the same time, dbx-encoded records would have supplanted conventional vinyl in the audiophile market. (See the review video below.) Come to think of it, it was probably the dbx record listening experience that turned me off conventional vinyl more or less permanently.
Last edited by Trakhak; 09-04-23 at 06:21 PM.
09-05-23, 08:23 AM
#47
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The talk about Schwinn regarding bicycles as children's toys is on the harsh side. Schwinn's lesser known efforts to make adult-oriented bicycles prior to 1960 should be mentioned.
Before WWII Schwinn produced the adult-oriented New World and Superior models. Both were fillet brazed frames in the early years, with the Superior being a cr-mo frame. A wide variety of British and American parts were offered, including hand brakes and three speed hubs. Frames up to 23 inches on 26 inch wheels were offered, again mirroring British utility and touring type bicycles. The New World also was produced in a drop bar "racer" variant, with road or track type parts offered depending on how the rider wanted to use the bike. These bikes were aimed squarely at adult and sporting type riders, with advertising emphasizing that British and foreign bikes were the competition, not children's cruisers or undersized bikes.
After the war, Schwinn continued to make adult bicycles at a time when the market for such bikes was reaching a low point. The New World continued to be made, with the Superior being a step up from that, and then the 3-speed premium Continental (a high end 3-speed model not to be confused with the later and unrelated 10-speed Continental). These bike were also built along English lines, with 21 inch and 23 inch frames on 26 inch wheels. Premium stainless steel and even alloy rims were offered on higher-end models as upgrades. The high-end Continental 3-speed of that era also was offered in a drop bar Clubman model to compete with higher end British road models of that time. These models were ultimately replaced by the Racer and Traveler models in the 1950s, again British-style bikes offered in several frame sizes up to 23 or 24 inches on 26 inch wheels. Alloy brake levers and calipers also became the norm (Weinmann 810s usually) on the bikes in the 1950s.
Before WWII Schwinn produced the adult-oriented New World and Superior models. Both were fillet brazed frames in the early years, with the Superior being a cr-mo frame. A wide variety of British and American parts were offered, including hand brakes and three speed hubs. Frames up to 23 inches on 26 inch wheels were offered, again mirroring British utility and touring type bicycles. The New World also was produced in a drop bar "racer" variant, with road or track type parts offered depending on how the rider wanted to use the bike. These bikes were aimed squarely at adult and sporting type riders, with advertising emphasizing that British and foreign bikes were the competition, not children's cruisers or undersized bikes.
After the war, Schwinn continued to make adult bicycles at a time when the market for such bikes was reaching a low point. The New World continued to be made, with the Superior being a step up from that, and then the 3-speed premium Continental (a high end 3-speed model not to be confused with the later and unrelated 10-speed Continental). These bike were also built along English lines, with 21 inch and 23 inch frames on 26 inch wheels. Premium stainless steel and even alloy rims were offered on higher-end models as upgrades. The high-end Continental 3-speed of that era also was offered in a drop bar Clubman model to compete with higher end British road models of that time. These models were ultimately replaced by the Racer and Traveler models in the 1950s, again British-style bikes offered in several frame sizes up to 23 or 24 inches on 26 inch wheels. Alloy brake levers and calipers also became the norm (Weinmann 810s usually) on the bikes in the 1950s.
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09-05-23, 08:37 AM
#48
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Steel is just the old default- there are millions of people riding steel bikes just because it's what's there.
Because vinyl has been "obsolete" for 30 years, people (kids) actively choose to get into vinyl now. Maybe because they like spending all kinds of extra money for the snake oil, perhaps they like pops clicks and skips, maybe it's because they like the inconvenience of having to queue up songs and sides, maybe it's because they love taking up space in their place with records that they listen to once a year... if that.
I guess old people are the opposite of what I posted above- they have vinyl because they've always had vinyl... except for the people that are really into vinyl- the vast majority of people just want to hear music- as long as it sounds "good," the convenience of digital media just makes the limitations of vinyl prohibitive.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
09-06-23, 02:59 AM
#49
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Super Sport and Sport Tourer owners might disagree with this assessment. The SS crank forging while heavy is on the indestructible side. As a kid, it was not uncommon at all to encounter loose crank arms on those new fangled 3 piece cranks, and how did one lube them? I consider the Ashtabula crank on my 73 SuperSport to be a positive feature, although I did change the chainrings. I had it out today for 21 miles and came back with a smile.
I like one piece cranks just fine.
Cheap. No special tools needed. Easy to lube. The higher quality ones like on EF Schwinns are quite strong enough for mostly anything except serious MTB or BMX.
The pedals are 1/2”. That’s the biggest bummer as I don’t see a great reason why they couldn’t have just put more metal on the ends and drilled and tapped bigger.