Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged

Perhaps you should set a example and give away the multiple of dozens of bikes you are hoarding so that they can be used by people who need bicycles. This would help utilized the sunk environment impacts the production of those bicycles caused. These vintage bikes were produced in a time with much less environmental awareness as well as safety regulations meaning the damaged caused by their production is exponentially greater than a new bike today. Theoretically each bike you give away prevents the purchase of a new bike preventing further degradation of our planet.

Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged

So that places you in the Penny Farthing camp I guess.

We should change this thread to “Reasons for Old Men to yell at Clouds”

Originally Posted by Piff

Remember merziac, all Atlas wants is attention, good or bad. Best to just ignore their half-wit arguments, they're intended to be full of holes and thus engage you to respond. I think gish gallop and the related Brandolini's law also plays a part of their strategy to get people here to play with them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

More frustration = more conversation.

Originally Posted by Classtime

What I'm trying to avoid is selling a nice bike at a less than break even parting out price. (I'm also trying to avoid writing how much I HATE electric mopeds that have been mis-categorized as bicycles.)

Originally Posted by jethin

So we’re all in agreement that both electric and fossil fuel modes of transportation should be abandoned asap, right?

Originally Posted by gearbasher

It's kind of funny, but as I'm reading this, there's an ad for an E-bike on the right of my screen.

Originally Posted by chain_whipped

This thread is jumping around a bit but its a good topic and where dealers should be listening.

Couple of things, and thinking about these dealers. Fly on the bus to a major show convention for bike dealers / industry: Entire talk was about what makers have the best motors and watts. Zero about the market or pedal bikes.

What's been driving the E bike sales in the US is buyers tax credits.

BTW: If you recall the proposed tariff on imported e-bikes, it didn't happen because there's no e-bikes made in US, so where's the competition debate? Lol. Virtually all e-bikes are Asian made, by far the most made in China.

E bike users on the city are already weaning off them. Apartment , condo regs are banning. Vandalism, almost zero replacement parts let alone find a dealer capable of repairing. Frustration especially after paying the high cost for these bikes.

Society: Major metropolitan areas with investments in beautiful hiking and biking trail systems, network into city, suburbs to state and county parks. The use of them is way under utilized / percentage of users for its population. Its so bad in one collar county of Chicago, they just introduced a promo of earning a medallion for completion on walking its trails.

Lastly, I recently offered to gift a really nice, upper end model all chrome mid-school BMX to a nephew. He has zero interest and no desire to ride a bike. Kid is glued to his phone.

Originally Posted by cycleheimer

Some of the posts here mention the problems with e-bikes and the lack of standardization of components. VanMoof in Denmark just went bankrupt. They designed their own components, which now leaves VanMoof owners stranded when they break. Who needs that?

Originally Posted by chain_whipped

E bike users on the city are already weaning off them. Apartment , condo regs are banning.

Originally Posted by merziac

Well we obviously can't do that but the fix would be to hold companies, corporations and stockholders fully accountable.

They have been benefiting from just the profit for too long, especially now that we seem to be at a tipping point in many aspects.

Like I said, cradle to grave, make them responsible for the whole revenue stream including waste and disposal.

Of course they will never sit still for that but moving forward the tech could be tied down if we really wanted to.

Originally Posted by AdventureManCO

I wonder how someone who lives in an apartment manages an E-bike --AND-- I wonder what it must be like once the battery does die? -->
...

Originally Posted by merziac

Well we obviously can't do that but the fix would be to hold companies, corporations and stockholders fully accountable.

They have been benefiting from just the profit for too long, especially now that we seem to be at a tipping point in many aspects.

Like I said, cradle to grave, make them responsible for the whole revenue stream including waste and disposal.

Of course they will never sit still for that but moving forward the tech could be tied down if we really wanted to.

Originally Posted by Het Volk

…The most carbon neutral form of transportation (if policy makers and politicians cared) as well as adding benefit to the health of the population are used mechanical bikes. ...

Originally Posted by L134

They wouldn't make it if we didn't buy it. We are all accountable.

Originally Posted by mschwett

actually, believe it or not, e-bikes are slightly more carbon neutral than bikes, cradle to grave. both are far superior to walking. humans need to eat.





both are so far to superior to a fossil fuel powered vehicle that the difference between the two - which is certainly debatable - should never be used as an argument in favor of one or the other. that’s what the fossil fuel establishment wants, to muddy the waters of progress with debate and finger pointing and scarecrow/scare tactic arguments about anything other than good old gasoline.

Originally Posted by mschwett

the problem is that the companies - and people who made the choice to use their products at low, low prices - that did the most damage did it decades ago. a couple hundred million boomer-era americans driving a thousand miles a month at 20mpg, coal power in the southeast, a hundred other grossly polluting practices which were considered the norm.

so while i think many would agree that a lot have been benefiting from the profit and lifestyle afforded by cheap, heavily polluting energy and products, putting up major roadblocks to the companies currently making products (e-bikes, for example) that are by most accounts far less damaging to the global ecology is hardly equitable or helpful!

Originally Posted by Het Volk

Source? Does it include the fact many batters are recharged via non-renewable fuels? Lithium mining? Look, e-bikes are better than cars....and the concept writ-large makes sense that they are going to replace cars.....except (circling back to this original conversation), they seem to be replacing actual bikes instead.....

Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged

Perhaps you should set a example and give away the multiple of dozens of bikes you are hoarding so that they can be used by people who need bicycles. ...

Originally Posted by mschwett

sorry, forgot to add the link

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/l...mental-impact/

it looks like a reasonably thorough analysis. the tiny amounts of heavy metals in an e-bike battery make it far less intensive than people guess - something like 20-30 grams of lithium in an e-bike battery. and recycling is improving, if not there yet.

Originally Posted by merziac

"most accounts" is where it gets very murky, they will have you believe that the process is as rosy as the also skewed end result but both are far more dirty than we know.

"far less damaging to the world ecology" is also where it gets lost in translation, the E-batt's are very nasty in their own right, just different, their crabon footprint to manufacture is staggering in ways that are not part of the equation when comparing, apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by Het Volk

In reading the article, it seems focused on the carbon emissions from the actual trip, and takes nothing into consideration on the charging of the batteries, the potential life span of the bikes (many will be unrideable in 10-15 years) and overall environmental sustainability of e-bikes.

Originally Posted by 3alarmer

...yeah. Repairability scores and life cycle are a big deal. They rarely get included in these comparisons. Which is a shame. My personal opinion is that 10-15 years is pretty generous, given the nature of a lot of the lower end production.