TMonk

I've sort of changed my opinion after reading posts from some of you experienced guys. My initial post was quite reactionary.

All of this has me thinking: What makes taking a performance enhancing substance OK? For most of us, there as an underlying ethos behind the practicality of WADA codes. What defines that? Is it a substance-based definition, or is a mode of behavior?

TMonk

RE: Baking Soda paper

"...as well as lowered rating of perceived exertion..."

Hmm.

Enthalpic

What they did with horses was unethical (garden hose down the throat, pour in chemicals). Horses won't drink the level of salt they wanted.

Wesley36

Training Peaks had a two article series on using baking soda on their blog
Boost Your Performance Using Simple Baking Soda | TrainingPeaks

Doge

Kids are big into this. My son not so much, but very popular.

TheKillerPenguin

My original response was along the lines of if I can reasonably get what a supplement gives me by switching up my diet, I'm okay with taking it.

But, I can't justify caffeine like that, it's a straight up stimulant. Like any red blooded american I love black coffee, but that's out of competition. I know it works at least a little bit and it's safe, so I take it while competing.

So I dunno. I think my found in food + caffeine exception line is pretty vanilla. I wouldn't take legal amounts of pseudo in competition, but then again I really try to avoid taking allergy meds except for my worst days because they make me feel weird. Taking baking soda sounds about as appealing as the saltine challenge. I also never take pain meds, but I can't decide if it's because I don't like pills or I'm just stubborn.

Enthalpic

You dissolve it in sport drink...

TheKillerPenguin

Sure, I was just having fun with it.

Enthalpic

and I had fun imagining it.

caloso

I drink coffee. And take beta alanine.

Fingolfin

I really feel these two quotes need to be tied together in any talk about what we ingest as athletes. Fundamentally, a lot of the drugs on the prohibited substance list either have little medical use, or their use to improve performance has serious health risks. In trying to decide what is a legitimate supplement there is a pretty big spectrum between a hypothetical raw foods vegan and someone doing a Lance level doping regimen. Even if what we are ingesting isn't banned, we should be considering the overall heath effects of our choices.

$0.02

Doge

Really trying to avoid talking about those on this thread.

misterwaterfall

There's a very well known powerlifter (Chris duffin) who has talked about doing a shot or two then lifting heavy. According to him, the Russians do it with vodka. The shot or two will calm your nerves on a big attempt but it's not enough to dumb down your motor skills.

Doge

So...in competitive season my wife, my son (and me - but I suck) do not take caffeine at all for recreation so it has maximum effect on race day. So kid drinks water so he can get the jacked up feeling on race day on 50mg while the masses are somewhat immune to the drug from daily recreational use. The tone I get is that is bad but dosing daily is fine.

Andy STi

Diet Pepsi daily!

TheKillerPenguin

I don't think so. I just really like coffee, and if I didn't drink coffee I'd probably just replace it with something else. I do try to drink a bit less of it while in season though.

Doge

phenylalanine!

It would work better if you abstained till race day.

Doge

Bet you don't drink decafe.

TheKillerPenguin

I do actually! Decaf americanos taste pretty good.

Doge

I stopped drinking non-alcoholic beer as I drank too much.

Fingolfin

Totally fair, I more wanted to touch on the idea that even if we are just having a steak, protein shake, coffee, candy bar, beer, etc. that the ergogenic effects and health draw backs should be considered. Part of the problem with this is many of the draw backs are hidden by time (or marketing, peer pressure).

In the past I would drink tons of caffeine when getting up at 3a to make multi hour drives for road races. Drive, reg, first ~1.5 hours of the race I'd feel great, but after that I'd be dead in the saddle.
I generally have a protein smoothie for breakfast. The protein powder could be substituted out for something else, but doing so would lose most of the convince factor.
I take a multivitamin, probably little more than a placebo.

mike868y

i drink coffee. and put whiskey in my bottles when it's below freezing.

globecanvas

I'm going to be the grumpy old man in this thread. I think taking anything, legal or illegal, that makes you feel or perform differently in order to gain a performance advantage, is dumb. Dumb for two reasons. Physically dumb because feeling different is unpredictable and you never quite know what the outcome will be. Philosophically dumb because performing differently while feeling not like your normal self means you are not performing like your normal self -- it's not "you" who benefits from whatever advantage you have gained.

My feelings about this are connected to my feelings about recreational drugs. Age is earned experience. It took me years to learn that taking stuff in order to feel different was generally not something I enjoyed.

I drink a couple of cups of coffee every day and I enjoy it. I usually drink a cup of coffee before a race, mostly to make sure I am feeling like my normal everyday self during the race and not coming down off the morning's coffee. I would never take a caffeine pill. I don't take any vitamins, supplements, protein powder, beet juice, or anything that tastes weird just because I heard it improves something or other.

I enjoy a glass or two of bourbon a few times a week, but I consciously avoid drinking every day, and I never have more than two, because I know that one drink may make me feel better than no drinks, but three drinks makes me feel worse.

I once took advil before the third day of a stage race because I was sore, and I regretted it. It made me dehydrated.

I once raced on sudafed because I was sick and it was terrible. I just felt weird, partly sick and partly speedy. I abandoned the race.

The bottom line is that I really hate feeling not-normal and try not to do things that make me feel that way. I disapprove of anyone who does try to gain advantage through any steps that make them feel different from their normal, everyday self. The disapproval is on a spectrum: somebody who takes random supplements and caffeine pills gets the same mild disapproval as somebody who has, say, a Hummer. Somebody who intentionally pushes the envelope of legality or health gets stronger disapproval.

beatlebee 

^So, do you approve of someone taking, say, yohimbine HCl everyday because they enjoy it and it makes them feel like there normal everyday self? I ask because I read a lot of contradictions in your statements.

What is or isn't a drug is nebulous IMHO. Caffeine, alcohol, those are drugs IMO. I consider drugs to be those things that change the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain. Sugar does that.

globecanvas

I have no idea what yohimbine HCL is, but I agree that caffeine, alcohol, and sugar are drugs. Everybody will have some subjective line in the sand (or no line, which is equally subjective). My line in the sand is, taking legal or illegal drugs solely to improve athletic performance is lame.