Steve Whitlatch 

Sweet looking build. My Prologue is a size smaller than yours. Mine is 20 4 lbs with Suberbe Pro and Tubulars. I have a full Ultegra 10 speed group I am tempted to put on but I have not convinced myself to do it yet. Your is tempting me even more. Really love your build.

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you! Can't argue with an '85 Peloton, as I still have mine, albeit as a frameset currently. Light frameset, too!

Thanks! Yeah, I just lightly squeezed in in there. I wouldn't coldset as it's fairly unnecessary going from 126mm to 130mm. From 120mm to 130mm, yeah, I'd do it, and have done it. An '89 Circuit is a proper bike. Columbus SL tubing (like earlier Pelotons) with late '80s Schwinn high-end race geometry (like my Prologue, which is identical to the Paramount except for the fact that the Prologue has 5mm more fork offset/rake).

Thank you so much! I would have jumped at a red and white one if it were the same everything as my black/grey one is now. I find red/white to be trickier to compose. Or rather, one's options are narrower. Lots of silver/polish (classic look) or just tons of murdered-out black that isn't too shouty. The red/white paint job has enough going on visually that one needn't not try to compete with it via other 'exciting looking' components, IMO.

Thank you!!

Thank you!

Thank you, sir! Fewer gears, no brifters (lighter brake and shift setup), tubulars, plus a touch smaller--makes sense that it's lighter, which is just great. Part of me thinks that, as much as it's cool to have light wheels and some deeper section, a more traditional box section rim and supple tire just work well with old steel frames. Helped on my '85 Paramount (over nice Mavic CXP33's with Conti GPs) Maybe it's just the Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX tires. Those things are magic.

RiddleOfSteel

So as previously wondered about:

1) The Modolo stem is SAFE! It's got the super wide, squared-off lower profile.

2) Potential weight savings. Weighed both Vuelta Corsa Lite wheels--one with the Kenda tire on them, the other with the Vittoria Open Corsa (25mm size). They were within 12g of each other. No tire weight savings. Weighed a 7700 crank arm (drive side) against my FSA carbon example. FSA weighs more by a bit. So at this point, I'm not going to chase sub-20 weight. The bike is built, it's happy. I could do a stem conversion, but there's no need. My Emonda doesn't need its part pilfered either, which is also nice. I really like it built up and the way it is.

rccardr 

Narhay

I have been waiting for the right frame to put together a retro roadie. I also have a modern bike with 7900 and Im glad to hear you are aware of the compatibility issues with the FD-7900.

jethin

since6

Lovely bike and story many many good rides to come, enjoy.

cyclotoine

Good to know on the stem!

Dura-ace cranks were always my favourite. I'm running 180 mm 7800 cranks with Sram red 10 speed on my fast roadie, Dura-ace is lighter and aluminum. Mine are pretty scuffed from the previous owner and I laid the bike down once to the rear derailleur and right shifter now have matching scars so I'll stick with the slightly haggard look.

RiddleOfSteel

The Modolo stem gave a bit of a gawky/goofy look in addition to being a bit visually bulky. That combined with the STIs made for a heavy-looking front end. And with a bike at 20 lb. 11 oz. I wondered where I could shave some weight. I couldn't do anything but about 12g at the wheels (tire differences) so I left those alone, as mentioned before. Seat post was as light as anything else I had, and the pedals were single-sided SPD mountain units--much lighter than their standard dual-sided counterparts. The crankset may have been Octalink and of the older 7700 generation, but I was already running the much lighter BB-7700 bottom bracket unit--any weight savings going to 7800+ (Hollowtech II) would be minimal, though stiffness would increase.

So I took a page from a certain red Trek with a stem conversion and converted the Prologue. A black 115mm stem at -17° rise with a lower profile adapter, and with the help of a beer can "shim," it all worked well and looked the business. It felt very sure up front and with all that length, I could guide it through turns. I shaved a whopping 160g (5.5 oz.) in the process! It was comfortable, but like the Modolo/Profile Design setup, was a touch long and made for slightly wonky/tiller-like auto-steering when climbing or accelerating out of the saddle. Well, the conversion more than the traditional.

Here it is looking quite purposeful. Notice the hood shape, where it goes from horizontal (where hands rest) to the vertical knob section. At an aligned side view, that kick-up point is pretty much right on the same vertical plane that the front axle is on. In my experience, same-plane alignment yields neutral--if a touch subdued--steering response. It's always smooth, and if the frame/bike is smooth, then that is a 'match' to it. A kick-up point ahead of the front axle plane makes for 'slower' steering, while a kick-up behind the front axle plane makes for quicker steering. Ideally, one would want the frame/bike characteristics to match the steering (stem, bars, levers) setup. The Prologue is definitely a more lively frame, but it didn't really complain with this conversion setup.

RiddleOfSteel

...Still, the matte black stem didn't quite match the gloss black seat post. Upon a recent test ride with a matching 7900 front derailleur (it's cable pull ratio is only compatible with a 7900 shifter), I noticed the noticeable tiller-like tendency when out of the saddle and how that involuntary turning opposed the mission of going straight forward at all costs. A shuffling of the hands back about three-quarters of an inch with an out of the saddle effort confirmed what I thought: I needed a shorter front end setup, even if it was within comfortable range of my preferred reach dimension.

[ As a side note, the 7900 FD works perfectly. Light, crisp, just push the lever and you're there! I literally pulled the cable tight enough with my fingers, cinched down the derailleur cable bolt with the 5mm allen key, and it was set (well, of course, after I set the low limit). I didn't need to adjust cable tension at all. Wonderful! ]

Enter in this nearly-unused, beautiful black 100mm quill stem I had picked up a few months ago in Portland (while meeting a former Bike Works employee now employed there--that was cool). What was I going to use it for, especially given the fact that I was in major sell-all-the-parts mode? Most likely for a bike I'd build up to sell.

So that of course hasn't happened yet...ugh. So as idleness (of parts, at least) goes, so does the coming up of ideas for builds and modifications. I weigh the Modolo stem: 359g. What a (nice looking) boat anchor of a stem! I weigh the mystery 100mm stem: 286g, a difference of 73g, nearly half the weight I shaved off. Considerable!

I go and unhook the conversion stem from the steerer (all STIs and bar tape still attached to everything) and slot the 100mm stem, with the Profile Design bar attached, onto the steerer. Looks pretty good. I know it won't get my STIs to the elevation they currently live at, but it's only 1/8" or so. The stem/bar combo change (again) is a go. Twenty or so casual minutes later, the change is complete. The reach measurements are confirmed as at or just barely less than spec. Perfect. Proportion looks good, the kick-up point is set back of the front axle plane, and even just standing still over the bike, turning the wheel, I know that the steering is livelier, now fully in line with the frame's character.

A test ride the next day (today) confirms my thoughts. Perfect out-of-the-saddle manners with regard to the front end keeping straight as I rock the bike back and forth. There is no "learning" the bike here, it's just natural and well-behaved, working with you the rider.

I seem to be reaching a point of wanting the saddle to hoods kick-up (reach) distance to be much more to the number (36.0" with my measurement system), and really not stray from it. I can deal with a little extra reach when I'm not tired, but when I do fatigue, feeling like I'm any kind of stretched out and slumping over the bars just adds to the fatigue. I experienced this with my recent (to be shown) Guerciotti build-up--it being a beyond top shelf bike--and now it is the same with the Prologue (still a top shelf bike, just with STIs).

So we're back. Quill stem, matching in gloss black to the seat post. Traditional drop bars, now with 10-speed levers. Looks just right, and works even better.

Indytriumph

I just love this bike! I am going to be copying a lot of your build for my recent Prologue purchase.

Tom

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you, Tom!

I did several more rounds of updating the groupset that made their way into various other threads (though not this one, unfortunately). Ultimately, I sold the frameset mostly due to it needing to be taller once I got fitted more properly to a bike. Basically, I didn't want to have a gawky-looking stem setup on such a gorgeous bike/frame. Priorities, you know?

So I will rectify that! Below is the progression of the above bike to full 7900-era Dura-Ace. Great shifting groupset, and with the right bike color, a sweet looking groupset. Great generation of Dura-Ace. The Dura-Ace WH-7850 wheels (later to be classified under the C24 moniker in the Dura-Ace wheelset lineup) are wonderfully light, strong, springy, yet dampen vibrations due to the carbon overlaying the aluminum rim structure. The Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX tires were another wonder. Super light and super supple, even for a 23mm spec. This I think was my lightest setup and just under 20.0 lbs (could have been closer to 19.6 lb IIRC). 7900 is a light groupset, and those wheels were not much over 1400g.


The next evolution was 6700 generation (6770 to be specific) Shimano Ultegra Di2, the first generation of E-tubes-based Di2 that only now has been phased out by the new generation (connections are different, at the very least). I would say that this composition was my most favorite. A high-water mark among others. Beautiful, lithe, wonderful shifting, with the tan wall tires setting everything off just right. I sold nearly all my bike parts and bicycles at the start of the whole coronavirus thing as I had lost my job, so the Di2 went away. Thankfully I have found employment and Di2 is back on the menu and I am slowly gathering components.


Right before I sold the Prologue as a frameset, I put it together with full 7800 Dura-Ace, because it's such a wonderful groupset and I also wanted to see how it'd do with silver components. Really nice bike, even if the stem conversion (and stem) don't work with the rest of the composition. Regardless, here is a modernized silver composition to serve as some possible inspiration.


And finally, updating the classic downtube C&V look/composition with A Few of My Favorite Things (components). Like the above image, 7800 for the crankset, BB, FD and RD, 7900 10-speed downtube shifters, and the most exquisite brake levers to ever grace a bicycle (IMO) because of look, feel, and operation: 7402 Dura-Ace. The wheels are Campagnolo Atlanta 1996 rims laced to Shimano 6400-era 600 hubs. These rims are far and away the hardest thing to mount tires to, and were not very light, but rolled well and weren't even that uncomfortable. Handlebars were Cinelli 65-series (Criteriums), which are really comfortable due to their shape. This composition was stellar. Not as user-friendly as my 7900 or Di2 setup, but 100% a looker. Anyways, hope this gives you some ideas and/or "allows" you to not feel like you need to keep a build within a prescribed norm.

Indytriumph

So many ideas to work with, thank you.
My Prologue is the red and white version and has the Sante group set on it. I cant wait for it to arrive so I can start playing with it.
Thank you for the input, tips and ideas. The possiblities are endless.

Tom

RiddleOfSteel

Red-and-white Prologue with Sante sounds like a perfect match! Full late-'80s!

Indytriumph

I'm looking to replace the cables on the bike. Do you know if newer brake cables will fit in the stays on the frame?

RiddleOfSteel

They will fit just fine.