Fredo76

Yeah, everything was garbage then...

georges1

I remember of what Trek back used to be in the 90's early 00's and same with Cannondale. I appreciate Giant as much as I appreciate Merida but also more especially 3Rensho, Zunow and Cherubim for those who have knowledge about very high end steel japanese bikes know that they are outstanding bikes. As for carbon wheels and other things I am very nitpicking then again I don't think that BTLOS or Vision wheels are better than Boyd or Zipp or Bontrager wheels,that is due that I may have a very different notion and perception of quality than you have. I never expect quality from a cheap or an averagely priced product.

georges1

Giant and Merida are taiwainese brands and make both fine bikes, as a fact I own two Giants and a Merida that I absolutely love. I am speaking about brands such as Cannondale and Trek who have outsourced their production, the quality of the welds on cannondales is not comparable to what was made in Bedford and for the Trek the OCLV HC was entirely made in the US not the case of today carbon made Treks, maybe I am nostalgic of a time that doesn't exist anymore. This is what I think is a forever debate, some are fine with newer stuff and some aren't adopting to it but to each their own .

Trakhak

That's putting it far too strongly. The best bikes back then were beautiful and simple. I remember all the pro-level steel bikes that I rode and raced in the '60's, '70's, '80's, and '90's with pleasure and pride. That bikes have evolved since then takes nothing away from the past.

genejockey 

BTW, I LOVE that channel. I can't understand a word he's saying, but I don't need to. It's like porn for C&V gearheads.

mstateglfr 

oof. Your posts often contain errors, but this is another level of incorrect comments and unrelated posting.

seypat

What about MEILENSTEIN LIGHTWEIGHT WHEELS?

big chainring 

After a spirited ride I like to rib my friend..."So I paid $40 for my bike, and how much was it you paid for yours "?

3alarmer 

... qft. It's interesting you see proprietary parts as a positive development in this technology of bicycles. Meanwhile, the chain drive, derailleur shifted bike you ride around on is based on a drive train concept that was developed and perfected over those years you say you know nothing about. But now you can shift it with a servo motor. That's some high tech right there, boy.

Fredo76

That was sarcasm.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Eric F 

How is Trek’s OCLV material made in USA different than Trek’s OCLV material made somewhere else?

I have a US-made Trek OCLV from 1999. I also have a 2018 Trek OCLV that is essentially the modern version of the old bike. As far as I can tell, there is nothing inferior about the newer bike.

3alarmer 

...thankfully, the expensive prices on modern bikes have attracted a lot of new threads offering loans to buy them.

georges1

They are premium high quality wheels

georges1

If you are happy with your new Trek that is fine. In the past trek marked their OCLV carbon frames OCLV HC110 and even OCLV HC120, I don't think it is the case anymore.

seypat

Come on now. During that time they've added some cogs on the back, moved some load bearings around and relocated the shifters a few times. Definitely some high tech advancements.

seypat

Speaking of super high tech advancements, we've went from a multi piece adjustable stem/handlebar system of one material, to a multi piece adjustable system of another material, to a one piece non adjustable system of another material. The best part is, the one piece non adjustable system costs what, 10-15 times the cost of the previous systems. That's some real progress right there.

georges1

I apologize but I think that you are overexagerating a little bit, you are probably knowledgeable but I have rarely met people who have an encyclopedic knowledge regarding bikes. Everyone can make mistakes.

smd4

Your opinion that Columbus SLX tubing wasn't considered high end notwithstanding, I think your posts are pretty accurate and knowledgeable.

georges1

I appreciate your opinion and feedback greatly. We can't agree on everything sadly.I started to like columbus steels with the el, max and neuron steel series and later on with genius, nemo, foco and ultra foco and spirit steel series. I am also a Dedacciai and Reynolds fan too. To know what you are purchasing is important. A friend of mine bought a Cinelli Columbus Genius fillet brazed frame, he is going to equip it with the 25th Dura Ace Anniversary Group and with Dura Ace C50 wheels.

PeteHski

Carbon frame layups have improved massively in the last 20 years. So wherever they were manufactured back then is really a moot point.

Eric F 

Trek has multiple different number designations for their OCLV material on their current bikes. What those numbers mean, I don't know. My 2018 Procaliber 9.9 RSL was indicated as "Super Light OCLV". This was the Pro Team frame, and made with their lighter weight OCLV material than the "standard" Procaliber frames. I don't have any reason to believe that the OCLV 110/120 materials from 20 years ago were superior to Trek's current OCLV materials. Like it has with others, I expect their CF technology has evolved. I suspect this has a lot to do with me not being hung up on thinking older, US-made products are always superior to new stuff made elsewhere. The transfer of knowledge and technology is not hindered by crossing oceans.

PeteHski

The 5-speed downtube friction shifter derailleur drivetrains I rode in the early 1980s were far from perfection. Of course the basic derailleur concept is the same today, but not the actual parts and operation. Could they have produced the high-end bikes we see today back in 1980? If Shimano had offered a current Di2 12-speed drivetrain back in 1980 it would have looked like it came from another planet.

Sierra_rider

I think the frames are lighter nowadays, it's just that the components may have become heavier. You start looking at XC bikes and they are still very lightweight, my Blur in the "downcountry" build with 120mm suspension, is in the 25lb range with alloy wheels. A top-shelf Santa Cruz, that the pros are racing in XCO, is about 23lbs. Sure, you could build a vintage rigid/hardtail to be lighter, but that vintage bike would get absolutely smoked on a modern race course.

I kinda also think about my Canyon Strive(carbon enduro bike with 160mm travel.) It's no flyweight at 34-35lbs, but it's much more dirt-cable than the 45-50lb downhill bikes I was riding nearly 20 years ago.

3alarmer 

...the improvements in tooth profile and shifting ramps, workable indexed shifting (that worked quite well), basically the stuff that makes Di 2 possible, was all well in place by 1980. I still have a couple of bikes that use Dura Ace indexed shifting from those years, and they shift flawlessly. 12 cogs on the back ? OK, I'm not even gonna go there.

I'm happy you are happy with your Di 2, genuinely happy. But the technology that makes it possible is all pretty old tech. Some of it is borrowed, like wireless signaling and small servo motors. The stuff that makes it possible on your hi tech bicycle as far as shifting between the gears using a chain as the drive ? That stuff has been around a while. I guess it benefitted from advances in battery tech and miniaturization...but that's not stuff the bicycle industry researched and developed. It's borrowed.

smd4

But you didn’t know that then. Back then, they were perfection.