kendall

please take a moment to list the 'made up statistics'.

I only made two assumptions:
That a MUP will not have cars on it
That a cyclist who is intelligent enough to stop at intersections would also be intelligent enough to make sure the way was clear before venturing into the road.

Really think you should re-read your posts before you start mentioninmg made up statistics.

If you don't like MUPs, stay off them.

Ken.

FSM

I tried to get my daughter to ride in one of those when she was about two.

She wouldn't get in the thing, and we tried to show her it was OK by putting a couple of her dolls in first and riding them around. The trailer hit the curb on the way into the driveway and the trailer flipped over.

I'm glad she refused to get in, because I now know it's not safe. I was hit by a car last summer and if I had been carrying my daughter in a trailer, she would surely have been dead.

I-Like-To-Bike

Whatz it do for the trailered children's chances of heart disease?

CB HI

You forgot your assumption that "If you assume that every car WAS out to get a bicycle stamp on the fender"

And you are the one trying to give statistical numbers that are made up. So why accuse me of your transgressions.

Please cite an actual study to support you statistics. Until then, they are just pretent numbers.

I-Like-To-Bike

My twins and their older sister all managed to grow up intact and fond of bicycling without the benefit of safety nannies pestering their father with their alarmist baloney.

kendall

My numbers were not presented as facts or statistics they were purely illustrative and clearly visible as such. (Note the IF statement in your quote above)

I did not say say "ALL cars are out to get a bicycle stamp on the fender" which would be a statement.
What I said was "If you assume that every car WAS out to get a bicycle stamp on the fender" used purely to illustrate a hypothetical situation.

Notice the IF preceeding each statement I made, which clearly identifies the statement as hypothetical or illustrative.

As opposed to your statements:

(part deleted as it has no bearing here) "And we know that MUPs are no safer."

"That is exactly the point, as those crossing make the MUPs as or more dangerous than riding the roads."

Those are statements of opinion presented as fact, where is your data? where are the facts to back your statements up?

Why was your response an 'attack' instead of providing facts to back up your statement?


Ken

adamtki

Yeah, so? We're not talking about what's dangerous for walkers here.

adamtki

We agree here. This is the main point I had.

Again, that's my point. Riding on the roads is more dangerous because there are more streets to cross.

Regarding whether crossing one street from an MUP is more dangerous than crossing one street from the road, I'd have to disagree. I think drivers ARE in generally more aware of MUP crossings than a bike lane or sidewalk crossing. We'll just have to leave that as a difference of opinion.

And how dangerous it is is really dependent on the cyclist. You have cyclists that expect cars to stop and you have cyclists that expect cars not to stop. Since this part is in your control, you can easily make MUP road crossing safer.

adamtki

At 12 miles an hour, for a given distance, you'll have almost twice as many cars that will need to pass you and each one of them will be a lot more itchin' more likely to be irate to try to pass you. Try driving behind a 12 mph cyclist vs at 20. 12 mph is immensely slow for a car. Also at 12mph, drivers have almost half the time to react to your presence. This is important around blind curves or when a car switches out of the lane behind you to pass only to surprise the car that was behind them of your presence. It's also important cause drivers get districted with a lot of stuff and having 10s to see you're there vs 6s is a big difference. Trust me, it's not just a safety illusion in the cyclist' mind.


Not only deaths, but serious or chronic injury. The chances of one of those is a lot higher with a car collision vs an MUP collision. And in an MUP, you have a greater degree of control regarding accidents. It's really up to you how close you want to pass that ipod listening roller blader.

adamtki

That's actually safer than a trailer.

CB HI

You are the one that started popping off numbers to try and support (illustrate ) whatever valueless point you were failing to make. So put up your study or stop popping out pointless numbers.

CommuterRun

You don't tow a trailer at all do you? Hopefully you also don't carry children on a bicycle. From a seat perched up high on the bike the impact to a kid just falling to the ground is much greater. That's going to happen in any kind of crash for any reason. Even if the bike simply falls over. Never happens with a two wheeled trailer. In the unlikely even that a trailer can be made to turn over, which is much more easily said than done, the kid never comes in contact with the ground at all if properly buckled in, and is further protected by the frame.

Post #59 is all wishful thinking.

Over the years, several members of this forum have described being given more room by passing motorists when towing a trailer. I have found this to be true whether the trailer is a kiddie trailer, a flatbed utility trailer, or a 14 1/2' canoe.

Ajenkins

I've toted a kid down steep hills at 35 mph in a trailer, on a road, with traffic.

My biggest problem?

"Do it again, Daddy!! Do it AGAIN!"

GodsBassist

Or the constant: "Go faster!"

"Well then maybe you should get up here and pedal this thing." >.<

Digital_Cowboy

Yep, just like us "big kids" they love speed.

And even in the unlikely event that one is able to tip over a trailer so long as the kiddies aren't hurt they're likely to ask for that to be repeated as well.

adamtki

Yes I do tow a trailer as I've already mentioned. And yes, injuries from a fall will be greater if you carry a child. But it's definitely more maneuverable which means it's easier to avoid accidents in the first place. So one could argue one way or the other on that one.

???

Yes, the consider ones will give you more room. But the inattentive reckless ones will still be there.

bmclaughlin807

My dogs didn't enjoy that at all!!! :-(

Trailer is much more unstable with two labs that can move around, as opposed to one or two kids that are properly buckled in!

I've tipped the trailer three times now... always when the dogs move to the outside of the turn while I'm making a tight turn. They've never been hurt in any of these accidents... in fact the first time they were really freaked out... until they realized they were in a park. Loose. With no leashes. Took me 10 minutes to round them up(they were having a blast chasing each other!), and a good bit of coaxing to get them back into the trailer!

mikeybikes

Its a matter of anecdotal evidence.

There's a MUP here in Denver that part of it ends up intersection with about five streets in a row. These roads also intersect with the street adjacent to the MUP. I've ridden both the MUP and adjacent street. The adjacent street is much safer. Most drivers tend to ignore the crosswalk for the MUP and stop at their stop signs for the adjacent street. Riding the MUP there were way too many close calls. On the adjacent street, I never had a problem.

I still will never feel a MUP crossing a street is safer than a street crossing a street.

sggoodri

I find towing the low Burley D'Lite trailer to be more maneuverable than a child seat with the extra weight up high. The D'Lite corners very well with its wide wheelbase and low center of gravity. I have no concerns riding 20+ mph with it. I am certain that my kids are safer with me pulling them in the trailer than they will be when they start riding their own bikes on these same streets.