Square & Compas

Some more questions about those that do not wear helmets. But before I ask, I think wearing a helmet is an individual and personal decision and I do not think there should be helmet laws dictating that people should.

Do those of you who do not wear a helmet aprticiapte in organised rides where a helmet is required? I am talking about a ride where you registered, paid the money and signed a waiver, (for what the waiver is worth). Before anyone says anything, yes there are organised rides where the organiser can prevent people from riding if they do not have a helmet. Please do not think this could not happen. It can and has. Most of this is dictated by the insurance policy the ride organisers have to carry to conduct the ride. It is generally announced and understood that to do the ride a helmet is required. So do folks that do not wear a helmet avoid these rides, no matter if it is a ride for a good cause or just a great and fun ride?

Also how many of you who do not wear a helmet do not own one?

rando

I don't go on organized rides...

I don't currently own a helmet; I did, for a while after I stopped wearing it, but since it was just gathering dust I donated it to the local bike co-op.

prathmann

I'm willing to wear one on rides where there are rules requiring it, but overall I've become convinced that helmets are at best of marginal benefit to the individual and are a net negative to society because they incorrectly portray cycling as a particularly dangerous activity and discourage participation. Since my local club requires helmet use (and no, it is not because of any insurance requirement - our carrier doesn't care) I actually wear one on a majority of my rides. But I don't wear one anymore when riding on my own or with another club which doesn't have that requirement.

I had previously worn a helmet on all rides for over 25 years until I started reading some of the research papers on both sides of the debate and concluded that they are far less protective than I had previously thought.

closetbiker

groups that want a larger participation are shooting themselves in the foot if they require helmet use. At least half the riders out there do not wear helmets.

I don't participate in rides that require helmets. If the charity is worthy, I'll just donate money and forgo the ride.

I live in an area that has a helmet law and wore a helmet for 21 years. I finally took it off and it's hanging in my closet.

As an aside from the charity ride question, what about qualified cycling instructors who are not allowed to teach unless they wear a helmet?

Square & Compas

Forgive my ignorance on this but how do helmets negativley impact the overall view of cycling? Not trying to debate that they don't, I just don't don't understand how they do, or it is perceived that they do. I am asking that you educate me on this, cause I honestly do not know and have never heard of this. If you have a link, instead of typing out a lot of info. about it that would be fine. Or is this simply your opinion and there are no studies or stats on this by anyone, yet?

Would you agree that though far less protective then you first thought, accorrding to the info. you hav seen, they offer more protection then no helmet at all, in regards to an impact to the head? Not including the helmet catching and "stickign" on something, potentially causing neck injury.



When I said organiszed rides I did not not mean club ride rides. Our club, like yours has an insurance carrier, but has no requirement for wearing a helmet. We ask that people do, and recommend it, but will not prevent you from riding with us if you don't. By organized ride I meant rides put on by chambers of commerce and charity groups.

closetbiker

Brian Walker, the director of one of Europes top helmet testing facilities wrote a paper for Britians CTC on the limitations of helmets specifically addressed the cyclist/pedestrian question.

The tests cycle helmets currently go through mean they should offer similar protection to a pedestrian who trips and falls to the ground...

(the BSI standard) is intended for use by pedal cyclists...in the 5 - 14 year age group...

it is not intended for high speed or long distance cycling or for riders taking part in competitive events...

and is intended to give protection in the kind of accident...without other vehicles involved

I have traffic collision reports from my home province that shows a death rate more than twice as high for pedestrians as for cyclists for each collision with a motor vehicle

(eg each year about 2000 cyclists are hit by cars - about 900 of those result in some sort of claim of damage - and there are about 6 deaths - each year about 1800 pedestrians are hit by cars and there are about 65 deaths)

chipcom 

1. wearing a helmet for an activity gives the perception that the activity is dangerous
2. perceived requirement of specific clothing and equipment is a potential barrier to entry

Square & Compas

Would you say the same for the game/sport of football or hockey? Where a player wears far more then just a helmet.

Let's also compare ti to another mode of transportation. Driving a car and wearing a seat belt. Do you think wearing a seat belt gives the perception that driving a car is dangerous? If that is the case then why does wearing a seat belt, or being required to wear one NOT barring people from doing so? and a caveat to add to that is NASCAR and other similar events where a driver has to wear a helemt. Does this not give the same perception?

Old Town

When I was a kid you jumped on your 20" stingray after school and the world opened up around you. The thought of doing a safety check-down like a frikkin' airplane about to depart never entered our helmetless heads. Biking is NOT a dangerous activity unless you are stupid and do foolish things. No helmet can save a fool riding a car, a bike, or a purple pony. Why is this helmet thing so hard? Wear 'em if you dig 'em, and leave me alone if I choose not too.

Down here in Key West it is the exception to see full-blown helmet-wearing, spandex-clad, toe clip equiped roadies. We use our bikes to get around a small island with narrow roads. Cruisers rule and nobody wears much specialty clothing at all. I do not own a single thread of "bike wear". Many times I ride shirtless with no shoes or sandals at all. No manufacturer of after market crap has ever made a buck off me and most of my fellow bums down here. Yet we ride more than most US cyclists because of the good weather. Yes, we have accidents. All places have accidents. But in all my life down here (and I ride 2-4 times a day) I've never even had a close call because I pay attention and no longer have large gouts of testosterone coursing through my veins. I don't take chances backing down motorists. That's a game that will bite you eventually no mater how much satisfaction if can bring when you stop the iron monster and gain the intersection. Ride smart, be courteous, and understand you do not own the world. Life's a lot easier then.

Square & Compas

You're right, cycling is NOT a dangerous activity. I rode helmetless when I was a kid to, and I did dangerous stuff on my bike. Did I sometimes get hurt when a stunt, no matter how well planned didn't go right? You bet. Did I hit my head? Sure a few times. Never had a concussion or a broken bone though. Just real bad road rash and bruises. Got lucky I guess.

chipcom 

Yes and yes.

1. The odds of a head injury in football and hockey are easily greater than the risk of head injury from cycling. But even then I have, and will continue to play both of those without a helmet in many cases too. Hell, I grew up playing tackle football in the street. Now playing organized football, I wear the uniform, just as I do when racing a bike.

2. Driving a car IS dangerous...as evidenced by not only the large numbers of people killed and injured each year, but also by the simple physics of operating a 2,000lb hunk of steel at high speeds in the midst of other barely competent people doing the same. And again, if increasing the risk of the activity, as in racing, a helmet may be warranted.

But for my everyday task of riding a bike to-from work, for errands and for recreation, the risk of head injury is right up there with the risk of head injury from me doing work around the house and yard...so a helmet isn't something I even think about. YMMV, obviously.

kendall

I think a large influence on the safety aspect, is that when a large portion of the population ride bicycles, the odds of a driver knowing a cyclist goes up dramatically. When you have friends who ride bicycles, or ride yourself, you tend to notice bicycles instead of having them fade into the background.

In my area, they are doing more to make it bike freindly, MUPs, sidepaths, and nice wide (seem like 8ft) paved shoulders. Though in many cases, the wide shoulders are dual purpose, intended as bike routes in the summer, and snow pile areas in the winter.

Either way, it makes it more convenient to get around on a bicycle. This summer, I put a grand total of 1800 miles on my truck, sounds like a lot. But when you consider that 1500 miles was in a single round trip, and I've made two 48 mile trips, and maybe eight 5 mile trips (each way) to pick up materials. I really haven't driven anywhere I couldn't get to on the bike.

Ken.

closetbiker

so why bother with a helmet?

chipcom 

because he's a fairly dangerous man?

Square & Compas

For me, it is because I have had an impact to the head and for me personally it only takes one time to learn that lesson the hard way. After that I also had an accident where I had an impact to the head and the helmet saved me from serious injury. Thankfully I have not had an accident for a long time. This is where my skills as a cyclist comes in to prevent that.

Square & Compas

Have any of you that do not wear a helmet ever suffered an impact to the head during an accident/collision while riding? If you have what was the severity of your head injury? I am not going to ask, but if you wish to explain why you still do not wear a helmet that is up to you.

onyourback

I have. I was t-boned in an intersection. I think the first thing to hit the ground was my face and forehead. It broke my nose, broke a tooth, and left several abrasions. No brain damage. It rang my bell pretty good. Had I been wearing one I might be able to tell how it cracked and saved my life. I still don't wear a helmet. I realized the accident was because the vehicle hadn't seen me, it was at night. Instead of adding a helmet, I added more lights, more high viz clothing, and more awareness at intersections.

Old Town

One of my daughters broke her elbow falling in the shower stall when she was about 12. She does not wear elbow guards now as an adult when taking a shower. Square & Compas I don't think you are a "helmet nazi" but why do you continue to beat the helmet drum? Seems almost pathological. I don't care if you fall face first into a wood chipper. Why the hell should I? And why should you give a turd about me? Annoy your close friends and family members with your paranoid view of the world if you like, you can justify it by saying you care for them and I would believe it. But I know you don't care about me. Hell, we don't even know each other. Cannot understand this need for strangers to look out for me. But if you really do care about my health and welfare, how about this: Please PM me and I'll give you my mailing address. Then you can send me money to help with other important aspects of my life. If you care about my head you must have some feelings for my wallet and the ass it's riding against. Please! Send money if you really care. Do that, and I'll start wearing a helmet with a picture of you emblazened on the front, little angle wings sprouting from your back.

closetbiker

OK, so cycling is NOT a dangerous activity yet because of a particular, personal situation, you made a choice. Might not be logical, but maybe it's emotional.

Is there anything wrong with others making their own choices?

Old Town

Square & Compas: You want a bad experience story? My senior year in high school I took my girlfriend out in an 18 foot open sailing dory off Stock Island down here in Florida. It was graduation night and we were drunk in a creative way. A mile offshore it seemed like a good idea to get naked and continue the festivities. This was done at once. She grinned at me, I grinned at her. She stood in the bow and struck a provocative pose. I was 18 and easily lured astray. On my way forward to deflower her, I stepped into a bait bucket, rolled onto the rail and continued over and into the water - laughing all the way for I still had the bottle in my hand.

I watched her sailing off in the ambient light of Stock Island and sobered quickly. She knew nothing of sailing. Not even enough to point the boat up. Off she glided. I made the mile swim home. Naked. On landing I found a plastic bag in a garbage can to wear like a body condom and set off for a few pals to get my naked date and the boat back. Things worked out OK in the end. I see this same woman from time to time down here. It always makes us grin.

I quess my point is not all bad experiences require regulations to prevent them. A good life is one where the subject ends his days full of scars and time-healed broken things. I want no guarantees in my life, they stunt the possibilities.

Roughstuff

(1) I think helmets are cool, and hot.
(2) they improve the image and safety profile of the sport, just as helmets on climbers do.
(3) properly designed, a helmet can be more aerodynamic than a plain ordinary head.
(4) When I go into a small cafe or restaurant and need to use the facilities, my helmet lets people know where I am sitting.


roughstuff

rando

football, hockey, nascar-- it kind of depends on the intensity of what you're doing, IMO. a friendly game of touch football? no helmet. Professional ('tackle") football? yeah, you might want to wear one. I just don't feel I need a helmet for a leisurely ride to work or the store.

Square & Compas

No, not at all.

My choice is logical, not emotional. Not sure what emotions you are refering to from an impact to the head, but ok.

Square & Compas

Sorry you didn't get a chance to lay her and glad it worked out in the end. But I think the moral of this story is:
1. Watch where you step on a boat.
2. Make sure the bait bucket is NOT where you are walking.
3. Make sure everyone on your boat at least has a basic knowledge of how to use the tiller to steer it back around where you fell in the water. Although being intoxicated could have made this a moot point and even the most experienced navigator would not have been able to control the boat.

Old Town

Square &Compas? You are a man of no romance.