WGB 

I was building up my Takara frame last week at the co-op. I installed the rear wheel but it was over too much to the drive side (not dished). The mechanic suggested replacing the drive side spacer with a smaller one.

Dishing is still off (too far to the right side).

I have checked it repeatedly.

Photos tell the tale.

I ensured the dishing gauge only touched the rim and not the tire on both sides

On drive side the guage sat tight on the locking nut on the axle.

On the non-drive side the guage sits "about" an inch above the nut.

Could I remove the drive side spacer completely and rebuild the axle with no spacer at all and move the spacer to the non-drive side??

​​​​​


Drive side


Non-drive side

squirtdad

Is this a new wheel build or new to you wheel? ares spokes correct length

I am very far from expert, but did correct a difference of maybe 1/2 that on a recent build.... it did help me to remember I only need to move 1/2 the difference as a correction

ClydeClydeson

I am suspicious of the spacers you have there - generally the locknut on the drive side only sticks out a few mm beyond the cassette, and, although you don't have the cassette mounted, I would think the locknut is too far out. Is there a slightly smaller spacer on the non-drive side? Because swapping them might make it better. Yes, you could try to put both spacers on the non-drive side, as long as this gives you enough space for the chain to ride on the small cog without hitting the frame. Moving the spacer to the other side will essentially move the dish over by twice the thickness of the spacer.

It also looks like the axle is sticking out more than normal on both sides - it only needs to stick out about 5mm or so, just enough to position the axle in the dropouts while the quick release is tightened. Is it possible some spacers were removed when you reasembled the bearings?

However, once the hub spacing is close to correct (OLD is correct and cassette has just enough clearance so the chain doesn't hit the inside of the dropout when in the smallest cog), you use spoke tension to pull the rim towards correct dish. This generally makes the drive-side spokes much tighter than the those on the non-drive side.

Bill Kapaun

You do realize the NDS tension will be somewhere between 50-70% of DS tension? You get dish by using uneven spoke tension from one side to the other.

I STRONGLY recommend NOT screwing with DS spacers. It can be a can of worms.
Your cogs may get moved out of the operating range of the RDER.

maddog34

The AXLE is sticking out too far on BOTH sides... it should only protrude about 4 to 5mm beyond the Locknuts.

Determine your frame's Dropout width by measuring between the inner surfaces of the Rear dropouts.

report back and we'll go from there, and not a minute sooner.
Takaras have been around a long, long time.. what Model? what Year, if known? Road or MTB? Number of rear gears?(if now a single speed, how many gears, originally, please). And also,, what Overall LENGTH is the entire axle?(this will be a big clue as to the Original O.L.D. of the hub/wheel assy, unless the Axle was swapped out.)

that hub would have began life as a 130 or 135mm O.L.D... we need to get it right for YOUR use.

"O.L.D." is the OUTSIDE Locknut Distance... Axle Length is about 10mm longer than the Original O.L.D. of that axle set....

maddog34

Someone has already "screwed with" them, Bill.

Mad Honk 

Wes,
Your drive side spacers are incorrect and should be corrected first then address the dishing b spoke tension . I have seen this way too many times when newbies have rebuilt a hub. Smiles, MH

WGB 

Thank you all.

I can do many things but truing a wheel isn't one of my gifts and dishing is even more esoteric for me.

I will return tomorrow night to the Co-op with the wheel and the frame. I suspect that when the mechanic was reassembling the hub axle after changing out that first spacer, something got missed. I won't be the one who fixes this issue.I don't trust my abilities!



Fyi - The bike was a Takara Grand Touring but it was spaced for me by a local frame builder out to 135mm to allow more gearing and he added shifter bosses and bottle bosses and then I had it powder coated. I will post photos when it's further along.

I was just planning on using this spare wheel set to see how it rides and shifts and then this occurred. I just had never seen a wheel this far out of dish. I have a set of 40/36 rims that are being built up for a proper touring wheel set by a man who knows what he's doing when building wheels (unlike me).

KCT1986

It looks like whomever worked on the wheel installed the axle and cones/spacers/locknuts backwards. The assembly on the DS is usually just cone, thin spacer, locknut; and the NDS assembly has cone/locknut, with spacers between of whatever thickness to get the proper OLD.

smd4

How did you not see the exposed axle ends are way too long? This is why experienced bike mechanics get the big bucks. 😔

KCT1986

Here is the setup on a very basic freehub axle.





This is a ballpark estimate of the distance from the 'backstop' of the freehub body to the outer edge of the locknut. So about 41mm for 8/9/10 speed and 42.6mm for 11 speed.

79pmooney

Go back (or have the shop mechanic go back) to square one. Arrange the washers and locknuts to get the desired (and measured!) 135 OLD. Put a cassette on and test to make sure the last cod and chain on it clear your frame. With those squared away, you can think about dish.

Currently, your wheel is not dished anywhere near enough. (I am assuming the dishing tool is properly sitting on - or better, almost touching - the rim in both photos.) The rim is sitting too far to the left (non-drive side). Either no dish was put in or it wasn't dished in the right direction. If the spokes were laced with the shorter drive-side ones on the left, every spoke will have to be moved. It may just need a lot more dish but don't touch it until you have the spacers and lockrings right!

This is not a built wheel you have to adjust. It isn't even half built. If it has full tension now, too bad. All the spokes need to be loosened and truing started over again once all the hub stuff is sorted out.

Build order:

1) Dial in the spacers to get the OLD and cassette space you need. (Really easy to do on the bike checks for the cassette and chain clearances with no rim attached.) Usually but not always safe to skip this with brand new hubs of correct OLD using that maker's cassette.

2) Get the correct spokes, both weight and length, calculating the spoke length using the rim's measured ERD, not the published one.. On a front wheel, the right and left spokes are the same on a rim brake bike and I'd guess also on a disc brake bike but I'll leave that for others. On a cassette hub drive-side spokes are usually 2mm shorter and often substantially heavier.

3) Lace the wheel. Double check everything. On a rear, the rim should already be "leaning" to the right, drive-side because of the shorter spokes.

4) Start tightening, focusing very early on getting enough or even too much dish. (Removing dish is easy. Putting in more on a fully tightened wheel is at the very least, living life the hard way and can lead to a problem wheel.)

At least step one was botched here or axle parts changed after the build.

Kontact 

You say the rim is too far to the right, but these pictures show it too far to the left. Did you just re-arrange the spacers to make it worse?

base2 

It does look as if the axle itself is in 180 degrees backwards & if tensioned at all it was done so each spoke in turn, exactly the same with no regard to where the rim located over the outer locknuts. Congratulations. Your rim is dead center over the flanges.

Get the axle in right. Loosen each spoke nipple 2-3 turns and start over.

Russ Roth

This is the correct answer, someone already put up a diagram, move that spacer from the drive side to the non-drive and you'll see the dish is nearly spot on, if its been screwed with, as others pointed out, check the wheel spacing to your frame spacing and adjust spacers on the NDS to match your frame, and yes, there should be a washer between the drive side cone and lock nut. Don't let anyone touch the spokes till the axle is properly resolved.

tFUnK

Is that even the right axle for the hub? Seems like the cone nut will prevent the cassette locking from clearing.

Bill Kapaun

This diagram is fairly typical regarding the amount of spacing on each end of a Shimano Free Hub.
Note the 135 version has the extra 5mm spacer on the NDS!

ign1te

Start by establishing how the wheel fits in the frame. The axle should be seated in the dropouts without protruding beyond the dropout surface (for quick release).

With your axle seated correctly examine the chain line as you shift. The spacers can be used to manipulate the chain line.

Dont adjust the spokes with the tire on. If you do you will be adjusting it blindly, without any knowledge about the spoke thread's nipple engagement.

zandoval 

Yep... Don't be afraid... Just loosen everything up and start over. It's always a learning process and some times ya can't even figure out what ya did wrong the first time...

FBinNY 

I'm very confused. You say the rim is too far to the RIGHT, but an undished rear wheel would be off toward the LEFT.

I'm hoping that you simply don't know kept from right. If not, you need to figure out how that happened.

In any case, first get the hub right as far as thd axle and spacing specs for the cassette. THEN, dish the rim to center between axle faces (frame).

WGB 

Update.

I brought the wheel back to the co-op. There was only one mechanic available so I did the work myself, going to him for a pass or fail at each step.

I removed the axle from the hub and stripped it completely. The co-op not only has a bench vise, it has axle vises as well. I'd like a vise, just no place for one in my house.

I built the axle back up, starting on drive side. When I was done I'd moved the spacer to the non-drive side and added two washers on that side, with a washer also added on the drive side. Axle fits snuggly in the drop outs.

After completion of the axle rebuild, I was stunned to see it was within "about" 1-1.5mm of being centered. I will have to spend time on the trueing stand to make adjustments as it's still not perfect but considering my mechanical skills I am very pleased.

I will post a photo. For now the dishing is good enough for the intended purpose of testing how this bike rides.

Kontact 

I think you just had the dish backwards in your head in the first place, and made it worse.

Good job fixing it!

Bill Kapaun

Considering you are probably using a grab bag of parts, that's very good!
You only have to move the rim 1/2 of that to be properly dished.

IF that's a common Shimano hub, there is usually an exploded view available with part #'s etc. One would need the model# though, such as FH-nnnn.

wheelreason

lol.