"Cycling tax"?
04-06-23, 09:37 PM
#26
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,525
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4357 Post(s)
Liked 3,995 Times
in
2,666 Posts
Yes you are being screwed, every turn you make you are being screwed. Life is all about you getting screwed. Buying an expensive sports car and paying more for parts for that expensive car they are making fewer of is you getting screwed. Same thing with everything else in your life.
Things cost money they always do and always have cost money. It is the facts of life. Inflation is a part of that and probably won't go anywhere.
The truth is nobody is screwing you and if they are get yourself tested for STDs. If you are worried about spending money on things like CO2 get a good quality pump and so long as you can move your arms you can inflate your tires time after time after time. If you don't want to spend all the money then don't but if you enjoy the sport spend the money you need to spend to get what you want out of it.
Things cost money they always do and always have cost money. It is the facts of life. Inflation is a part of that and probably won't go anywhere.
The truth is nobody is screwing you and if they are get yourself tested for STDs. If you are worried about spending money on things like CO2 get a good quality pump and so long as you can move your arms you can inflate your tires time after time after time. If you don't want to spend all the money then don't but if you enjoy the sport spend the money you need to spend to get what you want out of it.
04-06-23, 10:26 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,296
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8281 Post(s)
Liked 9,053 Times
in
4,479 Posts
I use this little inflator and I get the carts for about $1 each.
I'm retired but I worked at GM dealers, mostly Chevy, for the last 30 years of my career. We charged the same to tune-up a Corvette as we did the trucks with the similar engine. I never up charged a customer for anything on a Vette that was similar to other cars. I know people do, I recommend avoiding those people.
I'm retired but I worked at GM dealers, mostly Chevy, for the last 30 years of my career. We charged the same to tune-up a Corvette as we did the trucks with the similar engine. I never up charged a customer for anything on a Vette that was similar to other cars. I know people do, I recommend avoiding those people.
04-06-23, 10:33 PM
#28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Sometimes, if I know what caused the leak then yes, it'll bring a 23c tire right up to 90psi which will get you home but will lose some pressure if you still have a couple hours left to ride. If I don't know what caused the leak and can't find the culprit, being able to give the old tube some pressure to hopefully find the cause and still have enough to ride is better. My main bike I ride on the road has 27c tires, with the 19mm wide rim and my weight, a 16g gets it just to the pressure I like. Which leaves me not enough air to test. Annoyingly, my last road ride I got a flat, spent forever trying to find the cause, and assumed it was a small thorn I found. Judging from the tire currently being flat again, I'm guessing it wasn't.
Look nice, I can see why people would send them. I've got stacks of mailing labels and haven't licked an envelope in at least 4 years, but I can see why people would pay good money for an artisan card that looks like that.
Look nice, I can see why people would send them. I've got stacks of mailing labels and haven't licked an envelope in at least 4 years, but I can see why people would pay good money for an artisan card that looks like that.
Not exactly this one but very similar to it:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mP5tUqu
Supposedly works with 12g and 16g, threaded and unthreaded. In my experience, I've had to add a shim with the 12g cartridges (I usually just use a small piece of gravel I find on the road while I'm changing the flat).
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mP5tUqu
Supposedly works with 12g and 16g, threaded and unthreaded. In my experience, I've had to add a shim with the 12g cartridges (I usually just use a small piece of gravel I find on the road while I'm changing the flat).
I use this little inflator and I get the carts for about $1 each.
I'm retired but I worked at GM dealers, mostly Chevy, for the last 30 years of my career. We charged the same to tune-up a Corvette as we did the trucks with the similar engine. I never up charged a customer for anything on a Vette that was similar to other cars. I know people do, I recommend avoiding those people.
I'm retired but I worked at GM dealers, mostly Chevy, for the last 30 years of my career. We charged the same to tune-up a Corvette as we did the trucks with the similar engine. I never up charged a customer for anything on a Vette that was similar to other cars. I know people do, I recommend avoiding those people.
04-06-23, 11:01 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,481
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Liked 1,631 Times
in
1,047 Posts
[QUOTE=VegasJen;22852397]...12g CO2 cartridges just like every Daisy BB gun... /QUOTE]
That probably has a lot to do with it...
That probably has a lot to do with it...
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
04-06-23, 11:09 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: By theBeach and Palos Verdes, CA adjacent
Posts: 554
Bikes: One of each: Road, Hybrid, Trekking
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times
in
53 Posts
When I raced cars it was called the racer’s discount: List + 30%.
Likes For raceboy:
04-06-23, 11:17 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,481
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Liked 1,631 Times
in
1,047 Posts
My son dug out my old field bag of watercolor stuff I used overseas in the Army 50 years ago. Of course every thing is dried up to a rock. I decided to give it another try and have been totally flabbergasted by the cost of quality watercolor tubes and paper. Luckily I am one of those guys who only needs a five color palette.
As to the OP: Time to get a quality hand pump and move away from CO2. Something like a LEZYNE or one of its generic equivalents.
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
04-06-23, 11:39 PM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,951
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,299 Times
in
2,947 Posts
I come from the world of Corvettes and for generations now we have what we refer to as the "Corvette tax". That is additional expense added to ordinary items, or completely dedicated items, specifically for the purpose of extracting more money from owners than your average transportation appliance.
Do we as cyclists suffer the same tax? I think we do. Case in point. A few years ago when I began to get serious about biking, I went to Walmart and found a CO2 inflator that takes the standard 12g CO2 cartridges just like every Daisy BB gun made in the last 50 years. If I had known then what I know now, I would have bought 50 of them. The inflator cost something like $10 and you can get a 5 pack of 12g Daisy cartridges for $2.50. Now that my bike collection has expanded, I have tried to find the same inflator to no avail. I can find various 16g and 20g cartridges, some with threaded fittings, some without. And I can find inflators that accept 16g or 20g cartridges. And of course, the inflators are $20-30 on average and you pay almost as much for a single threaded 16g cartridge as you would for a 5-pack of 12g Daisy cartridges. But that cheap inflator that accepts cheap 12g cartridges has gone the way of the dinosaur.
So must we accept being screwed just because our hobby is seen as a cash cow by specialty producers? Have you seen this in your experience in the hobby?
Do we as cyclists suffer the same tax? I think we do. Case in point. A few years ago when I began to get serious about biking, I went to Walmart and found a CO2 inflator that takes the standard 12g CO2 cartridges just like every Daisy BB gun made in the last 50 years. If I had known then what I know now, I would have bought 50 of them. The inflator cost something like $10 and you can get a 5 pack of 12g Daisy cartridges for $2.50. Now that my bike collection has expanded, I have tried to find the same inflator to no avail. I can find various 16g and 20g cartridges, some with threaded fittings, some without. And I can find inflators that accept 16g or 20g cartridges. And of course, the inflators are $20-30 on average and you pay almost as much for a single threaded 16g cartridge as you would for a 5-pack of 12g Daisy cartridges. But that cheap inflator that accepts cheap 12g cartridges has gone the way of the dinosaur.
So must we accept being screwed just because our hobby is seen as a cash cow by specialty producers? Have you seen this in your experience in the hobby?
04-06-23, 11:59 PM
#33
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The product I referenced originally, I found at Walmart. I have since noticed, as with other items at Walmart, they stopped carrying certain lesser name brand items and replaced those items with their own "house" brand. In this case, Blackburn. Gone are individual bike components from various manufacturers, all replaced with similar items under the Blackburn brand. No doubt made from the Walmart owned China factory.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for a capitalist market. I'm free market at heart. But let's be real about certain things. Products made in China are made under conditions that would be considered slave labor in this country today, and major corporations can crush small industries by discontinuing their products and marketing their own foreign made house brand. I would not be surprised if that's not exactly what happened here.
04-07-23, 12:06 AM
#34
cowboy, steel horse, etc
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,851
Bikes: everywhere
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12778 Post(s)
Liked 7,695 Times
in
4,084 Posts
04-07-23, 12:08 AM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,951
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,299 Times
in
2,947 Posts
Or... maybe certain products are no longer produced. One might say that's a response to the market. That might be a valid argument. Except with that product is replaced by a similar, but proprietary product with a order of magnitude mark up.
The product I referenced originally, I found at Walmart. I have since noticed, as with other items at Walmart, they stopped carrying certain lesser name brand items and replaced those items with their own "house" brand. In this case, Blackburn. Gone are individual bike components from various manufacturers, all replaced with similar items under the Blackburn brand. No doubt made from the Walmart owned China factory.
The product I referenced originally, I found at Walmart. I have since noticed, as with other items at Walmart, they stopped carrying certain lesser name brand items and replaced those items with their own "house" brand. In this case, Blackburn. Gone are individual bike components from various manufacturers, all replaced with similar items under the Blackburn brand. No doubt made from the Walmart owned China factory.
Originally Posted by VegasJen
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for a capitalist market. I'm free market at heart. But let's be real about certain things. Products made in China are made under conditions that would be considered slave labor in this country today, and major corporations can crush small industries by discontinuing their products and marketing their own foreign made house brand. I would not be surprised if that's not exactly what happened here.
04-07-23, 12:15 AM
#36
Senior Member
Thread Starter
04-07-23, 12:16 AM
#37
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Likes For VegasJen:
04-07-23, 12:20 AM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,951
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,299 Times
in
2,947 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
04-07-23, 12:26 AM
#39
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I've never seen Blackburn anywhere else. But I did some research and I guess they're owned by Bell. Fair enough. You were right. All hail Tomato Coupe. It does not change the fact that multiple smaller suppliers were shut out of an entire market by a single conglomerate (which I still would not be surprised to learn Walmart has some stake in one way or another).
04-07-23, 12:28 AM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,951
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,299 Times
in
2,947 Posts
I've never seen Blackburn anywhere else. But I did some research and I guess they're owned by Bell. Fair enough. You were right. All hail Tomato Coupe. It does not change the fact that multiple smaller suppliers were shut out of an entire market by a single conglomerate (which I still would not be surprised to learn Walmart has some stake in one way or another).
04-07-23, 01:11 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 3,098
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1400 Post(s)
Liked 1,883 Times
in
1,084 Posts
I have never tried this electric cube pump, but if it works as advertised it may be a solution.
About the same weight as inflater/cartridges and it looks more compact.
https://www.cycplus.com/products/tiny-pump-cube
About the same weight as inflater/cartridges and it looks more compact.
https://www.cycplus.com/products/tiny-pump-cube
https://www.cyclingtips.com/2019/06/...-pumps-review/
.
Last edited by t2p; 04-07-23 at 01:15 AM.
04-07-23, 01:27 AM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 3,098
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1400 Post(s)
Liked 1,883 Times
in
1,084 Posts
used to carry an inflator and threaded 16g cartridges
the small inflator - Qwikfill (or something like that ?) - was one of my favs and is no longer available
lately will carry small micro pump - including
Topeak Microrocket AL
162 mm L ( 6 3/8“ L )
65 g
Lezyne Pocket Drive
Presta and Schrader (hose)
149 mm L ( 5 7/8“ L )
75g
Birzman Mini Apogee
Presta and Schrader
137 mm L ( 5 3/8“ L )
78g
.
the small inflator - Qwikfill (or something like that ?) - was one of my favs and is no longer available
lately will carry small micro pump - including
Topeak Microrocket AL
162 mm L ( 6 3/8“ L )
65 g
Lezyne Pocket Drive
Presta and Schrader (hose)
149 mm L ( 5 7/8“ L )
75g
Birzman Mini Apogee
Presta and Schrader
137 mm L ( 5 3/8“ L )
78g
.
04-07-23, 02:18 AM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,374
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2483 Post(s)
Liked 2,955 Times
in
1,678 Posts
That's a convenience tax, not a cycling tax.
04-07-23, 02:40 AM
#44
Newbie
If you want crazy prices, look at anything aviation related, the one thing in aviation that looks relatively cheap compared to cycling is tires, you can get a tire for most single engine planes for $200+, when you see what we are paying for bike tires that doesn't sound that bad,
Likes For andydallas:
04-07-23, 04:06 AM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 6,883
Bikes: Trek Domane SLR 7 AXS, Trek CheckPoint SL7 AXS, Trek Emonda ALR AXS, Trek FX 5 Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 768 Post(s)
Liked 1,744 Times
in
1,015 Posts
Very nice clean work. I especially like the color choices and saturation, she must also be using expensive paper.
My son dug out my old field bag of watercolor stuff I used overseas in the Army 50 years ago. Of course every thing is dried up to a rock. I decided to give it another try and have been totally flabbergasted by the cost of quality watercolor tubes and paper. Luckily I am one of those guys who only needs a five color palette.
My son dug out my old field bag of watercolor stuff I used overseas in the Army 50 years ago. Of course every thing is dried up to a rock. I decided to give it another try and have been totally flabbergasted by the cost of quality watercolor tubes and paper. Luckily I am one of those guys who only needs a five color palette.
04-07-23, 04:57 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,515
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,512 Times
in
1,510 Posts
Those must have been the fancy Daisy models. Most of the Daisy's I remember were hand pump. Didn't Ralphy have to pump his? Maybe if his name had been Rapha, he'd had a fancier CO2 powered model. Get yourself a mini pump. Lots of good models out there.
04-07-23, 05:05 AM
#47
Senior Member
I don't think that typical co2 cartridges have oil in them. The ones that do are a specialty item, well labeled as such, and typically a little more expensive. They are generally marketed through brands that cater to the shooting market. Also there is some use of cartridges in the food industry so I'd have to think they'd want to be careful to avoid confusion between their product with oil (often silicone I think) and regular cartridges.
Basically I think you are unlikely to get cartridges with oil in them if you shop for either a bike brand or a no name brand. To be safe I'd maybe avoid a shooting brand like say crossman even if it doesn't appear to have oil, but that is probably overkill.
BTW, I am not big a fan of co2 inflators anyway. For most use a mini pump is a better choice.
Likes For staehpj1:
04-07-23, 06:07 AM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,515
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,512 Times
in
1,510 Posts
If you're worried about getting enough air/pressure in the tire with a mini pump, carry a Schrader/Presta adapter and a pressure gauge. Pump enough aire into the tire to get going, then top it off at the next air station you see.
Last edited by seypat; 04-07-23 at 08:18 AM.
04-07-23, 06:29 AM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,246
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18420 Post(s)
Liked 15,564 Times
in
7,333 Posts
Inflators that accept 12g unthreaded carts are unpopular precisely because 12g carts are unpopular -- they don't provide enough inflation for the tires that more and more people are running. Also, unthreaded inflators are generally less popular than threaded adaptors. Any threaded inflator will accept any threaded CO2 cartridge of any size.
tl;dr: threaded carts (and their inflators) and larger (>12g) CO2 cartridges are more popular, and that's why they are more widely available...Because capitalism..
When I started commuting to another state on my Bike Friday with 20” wheels I bought an inflator because I didn’t want to sit by the side of the road pumping a tire. It only accepted 12g unthreaded carts. I soon learned that 12g was really not enough for my other bike with larger wheels. If I still have it, it doesn’t get used. And I can’t remember the last time I saw 12g in a LBS. A trip to Walmart is certainly not what I’m interested in, especially since I use so few carts.
04-07-23, 06:30 AM
#50
Cheerfully low end
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 646 Post(s)
Liked 1,044 Times
in
667 Posts
Jim started the company in the mid-70s. His stuff was in our main LBS by the late 70s. My first water bottle cage was a Blackburn bought in the late-70s. I bought a Blackburn mini-pump in the 80s and it worked well for several decades.
Blackburn’s supply chain disclosure indicates it is now one of the many brands owned by Vista Outdoor, which also owns CCI, Federal and other ammo companies. Basically Vista owns shooting product companies and outdoor sports companies.
Otto
Blackburn’s supply chain disclosure indicates it is now one of the many brands owned by Vista Outdoor, which also owns CCI, Federal and other ammo companies. Basically Vista owns shooting product companies and outdoor sports companies.
Otto
Likes For ofajen: