Is riding on the sidewalk ever ok?
01-23-18, 09:50 AM
#1
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Is riding on the sidewalk ever ok?
So my typical ride involves me riding from my house to the local bike path (17 miles total). I stay on the road until I get to the main and busiest road in my town. From there I ride the sidewalk for about a mile and a half. I rarely come across anyone else on the sidewalk when riding and always yield if I do. I just don't feel safe being on the road here. The speed limit is 35 here, but most people are going 40 to 50. I know it isn't legal to be on the sidewalk, but I've passed and been passed by the local police and they have never so much as give me a second look. Am I still wrong for doing this?
01-23-18, 09:59 AM
#2
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It's probably against the law.
Is it wrong? Not in my book. I'm the same - ride on a MUP five days a week to my office, with the first 5 minutes being through a neighborhood and then down a busy, narrow road lacking a bike lane. The motorists would NOT be happy if I took up the lane and the road is so narrow it's really the only option. I ride the sidewalk for that stretch. Same with you - I always yield to pedestrians, but I almost never encounter any.
I never used to ride the sidewalks but two things have happened in my world - I became a father not so long ago, which completely stripped me of my youthful bravado of "I'm gonna take on car culture!" Nah, now it's about getting around as safely as possible so I can be a father and a husband. Secondly, my city has suddenly boomed in population with A LOT more motorists suddenly on the streets.
I'm sure you'll get both yes/no feedback on if you're wrong. For me, I want to ride as safely as possible AND just not deal with aggressive motorists. Not much free time these days, so I guard my sanity and peace when I have it. And my 35 minute commute is one peaceful part of my day. I'll bend rules/laws when it keeps me just a bit more safe Just how I see things though. Oh, and of course beware of turning cars in parking lots, etc.
Same here, cops in this city are way to busy fighting crime to worry about some skinny dude riding his bicycle on the sidewalk.
Is it wrong? Not in my book. I'm the same - ride on a MUP five days a week to my office, with the first 5 minutes being through a neighborhood and then down a busy, narrow road lacking a bike lane. The motorists would NOT be happy if I took up the lane and the road is so narrow it's really the only option. I ride the sidewalk for that stretch. Same with you - I always yield to pedestrians, but I almost never encounter any.
I never used to ride the sidewalks but two things have happened in my world - I became a father not so long ago, which completely stripped me of my youthful bravado of "I'm gonna take on car culture!" Nah, now it's about getting around as safely as possible so I can be a father and a husband. Secondly, my city has suddenly boomed in population with A LOT more motorists suddenly on the streets.
I'm sure you'll get both yes/no feedback on if you're wrong. For me, I want to ride as safely as possible AND just not deal with aggressive motorists. Not much free time these days, so I guard my sanity and peace when I have it. And my 35 minute commute is one peaceful part of my day. I'll bend rules/laws when it keeps me just a bit more safe Just how I see things though. Oh, and of course beware of turning cars in parking lots, etc.
Same here, cops in this city are way to busy fighting crime to worry about some skinny dude riding his bicycle on the sidewalk.
01-23-18, 10:01 AM
#3
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In most municipalities and cities it's against city ordinance, as you've mentioned. Personally, I give a pass to children under 14, BMX bikes and beach cruisers.
Multi geared bikes IMO are unsafe on sidewalks regardless of type; but I understand not being comfortable on the road. I'd say if you're keeping it under 8-10mph and yielding to pedestrians, do what you gotta do. If you're going 10-15mph, time to think about getting comfortable with traffic. A bike going 15mph on the sidewalk is going to feel about the same to some pedestrians as a car doing 50 on the road feels to a cyclist.
Multi geared bikes IMO are unsafe on sidewalks regardless of type; but I understand not being comfortable on the road. I'd say if you're keeping it under 8-10mph and yielding to pedestrians, do what you gotta do. If you're going 10-15mph, time to think about getting comfortable with traffic. A bike going 15mph on the sidewalk is going to feel about the same to some pedestrians as a car doing 50 on the road feels to a cyclist.
01-23-18, 10:08 AM
#4
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I do so here , rather than ride on a roadway filling 4 lane highway for the 5 blocks to town proper
where the highway splits up into 2 1 way streets with a bike lane stripe..
but I do so at a quite modest pace, and am deferential, to those walking, ahead of me..
a gentle ring of the bell gets their attention.. it all works out.
OP, look up the vehicle code for your state..
...
where the highway splits up into 2 1 way streets with a bike lane stripe..
but I do so at a quite modest pace, and am deferential, to those walking, ahead of me..
a gentle ring of the bell gets their attention.. it all works out.
OP, look up the vehicle code for your state..
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 01-23-18 at 10:15 AM.
01-23-18, 10:14 AM
#5
Senior Member
If the sidewalk is almost always empty and you'd yield anyway, I see it as pretty harmless. But yeah, as stated above, definitely keep your speed under check.
I'm very comfortable in traffic, but choose just to insure fewer closer calls by avoid that one stretch of the road.
I'm very comfortable in traffic, but choose just to insure fewer closer calls by avoid that one stretch of the road.
01-23-18, 10:15 AM
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When driving... I often see what appears to be experienced cyclists riding main roads... and sometimes what looks to me to be less-experienced cyclists riding along those roads on the sidewalk. I ride the same "routes".... only I take the far less busy streets (often residential) one or two streets over.
Taking the main, most direct road.... is based on an automotive thought process. We have no need to do that on a bicycle. We're not saving time or gasoline sticking to the main road. In most cases... there are shorter, faster, easier routes that may involve a more intimate knowledge of the local streets and neighbors.
01-23-18, 10:25 AM
#7
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I have no problem with anyone doing whatever is the safest thing to do. However..... RARELY would I consider either riding on the main road, or riding on the sidewalk as safe.
When driving... I often see what appears to be experienced cyclists riding main roads... and sometimes what looks to me to be less-experienced cyclists riding along those roads on the sidewalk. I ride the same "routes".... only I take the far less busy streets (often residential) one or two streets over.
Taking the main, most direct road.... is based on an automotive thought process. We have no need to do that on a bicycle. We're not saving time or gasoline sticking to the main road. In most cases... there are shorter, faster, easier routes that may involve a more intimate knowledge of the local streets and neighbors.
When driving... I often see what appears to be experienced cyclists riding main roads... and sometimes what looks to me to be less-experienced cyclists riding along those roads on the sidewalk. I ride the same "routes".... only I take the far less busy streets (often residential) one or two streets over.
Taking the main, most direct road.... is based on an automotive thought process. We have no need to do that on a bicycle. We're not saving time or gasoline sticking to the main road. In most cases... there are shorter, faster, easier routes that may involve a more intimate knowledge of the local streets and neighbors.
Ugh, after using a bicycle daily since 2003 to get around and exercise too, I'm totally confident in traffic but also VERY happy to decrease my chances of being hit in all ways possible, which includes finding the quietest streets/routes.
I'm with you on that one!!
01-23-18, 10:34 AM
#8
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Usually the laws that prohibit sidewalk riding are aimed at business districts, where there may be a high chance of encountering people leaving shops.
The big danger of sidewalks are driveways... if you are riding one of those rare long sidewalks that has few if any driveways... heck, it's essentially an MUP.
Otherwise, the danger is cars crossing, and drivers not noticing faster bicycles on the sidewalk... so it is wholly up to the cyclist to watch for driveways and cars potentially about to cross.
The big danger of sidewalks are driveways... if you are riding one of those rare long sidewalks that has few if any driveways... heck, it's essentially an MUP.
Otherwise, the danger is cars crossing, and drivers not noticing faster bicycles on the sidewalk... so it is wholly up to the cyclist to watch for driveways and cars potentially about to cross.
01-23-18, 11:37 AM
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There's a narrow pavement that borfer the beach for a km or two. Next to that is a busy road, busy with holiday traffic all the time but especially with huge trucks evading motorway tolls first thing in the morning.
I used to take my dog for walks down this road, and I have to tell you the number of times both he and me were nearly mown down by cyclist wasn't funny. Worse at night, because they seldom used lights, and I, having a hearing problem, simply couldn't hear bells if used. To make it worst, those idiots on scooters, skateboards and those stupid hoverboard thing all joined in.
Frankly, if a cyclist is to use a pavement they should dismount.
I used to take my dog for walks down this road, and I have to tell you the number of times both he and me were nearly mown down by cyclist wasn't funny. Worse at night, because they seldom used lights, and I, having a hearing problem, simply couldn't hear bells if used. To make it worst, those idiots on scooters, skateboards and those stupid hoverboard thing all joined in.
Frankly, if a cyclist is to use a pavement they should dismount.
01-23-18, 11:50 AM
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Is it in a business district? It's probably not illegal unless it's in a business district.
As long as you yield to others (peds have the right of way on sidewalks), and ride slow enough for conditions (typical short sight lines to peds popping out of areas obscured by plants, buildings or vehicles), you should be okay. Be especially careful at intersections and driveway crossings where bike speed traffic is unexpected. It's ALL on you.
As long as you yield to others (peds have the right of way on sidewalks), and ride slow enough for conditions (typical short sight lines to peds popping out of areas obscured by plants, buildings or vehicles), you should be okay. Be especially careful at intersections and driveway crossings where bike speed traffic is unexpected. It's ALL on you.
Last edited by Ninety5rpm; 01-23-18 at 12:05 PM.
01-23-18, 12:00 PM
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The above is obviously poor advice, so not worth commenting further upon, other than to say if that's what your cycling church preaches, it should be struck off.
The situation is different in other countries. I believe in the UK is is not permitted unless the footpath is designated as a shared one.
France is an interesting one, because is has never been defined. Technically you can drive any vehicle on a pavement.
Why are authorities in the USA discriminating against normal suburban or commercial streets?
The situation is different in other countries. I believe in the UK is is not permitted unless the footpath is designated as a shared one.
France is an interesting one, because is has never been defined. Technically you can drive any vehicle on a pavement.
Why are authorities in the USA discriminating against normal suburban or commercial streets?
01-23-18, 12:08 PM
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To be clear, I'm not recommending the sidewalk riding. Just answering the question. Unless it's in a business district it's probably not illegal, and if done carefully and slowly it can be safe.
Of course it's better to learn to be safe, confident and comfortable riding on the road. I believe a CyclingSavvy course would be most helpful.
Of course it's better to learn to be safe, confident and comfortable riding on the road. I believe a CyclingSavvy course would be most helpful.
01-23-18, 12:09 PM
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The above is obviously poor advice, so not worth commenting further upon, other than to say if that's what your cycling church preaches, it should be struck off.
The situation is different in other countries. I believe in the UK is is not permitted unless the footpath is designated as a shared one.
France is an interesting one, because is has never been defined. Technically you can drive any vehicle on a pavement.
Why are authorities in the USA discriminating against normal suburban or commercial streets?
The situation is different in other countries. I believe in the UK is is not permitted unless the footpath is designated as a shared one.
France is an interesting one, because is has never been defined. Technically you can drive any vehicle on a pavement.
Why are authorities in the USA discriminating against normal suburban or commercial streets?
01-23-18, 12:19 PM
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As a decade’s long urban cyclist, I have ranted previously: “Riding on sidewalk revisited”:
...is something that's always been frowned upon, at least around here. Cars don't see you crossing a road. There are pedestrians,as well as many other hazards that make it more dangerous than on the road. However, there are times when it is a way better option than staying on the road...
I don't think I even consider doing it because of all the discussions I've readand participated in regarding the hazards of riding on the sidewalk. But having done it and feeling good about it I won't hesitate to do so if the situation warrants it.
I don't think I even consider doing it because of all the discussions I've readand participated in regarding the hazards of riding on the sidewalk. But having done it and feeling good about it I won't hesitate to do so if the situation warrants it.
...Last week I visited the family in Macomb County, MI. IMO, that is some of the nastiest road riding I have ever encountered.The main roads, to get anywhere, are six lane concrete slabs with bumps about every 20 feet, and many cracks and potholes especially on the right, with no shoulders, and heavy, zooming traffic with little patience for (slow) cyclists. Sidewalks alongside are frequently discontinuous, and often non-existent.
Even as an experienced urban commuter, I will often flee to the sidewalks, little used by pedestrians out in suburbia. Some major [better-paved] roads though, like Schoenherr and Gratiot do have continuous sidewalks for long distances. I have developed a technique for riding under such circumstances I call ”bolus riding.” (Bolus = “a small rounded mass of a substance, especially of chewed food at the moment of swallowing”; think of swallowed food as it passes down the esophagus.)
Since the flow of traffic is coordinated by traffic signals, traffic usually flows as a bolus. So using my rearview mirror, when I see a bolus of cars behind me, I go onto a driveway or intersecting street (all with sidewalk curb cuts) and on to the sidewalk. After the bolus passes as seen in the mirror I go back onto the street where I can ride much faster, until the next bolus of cars arrives. I estimate that more than one-half of the distance can be ridden comfortably on these otherwise hazardous roads…
I used to feel resentful that I was self-relegated off to the sidewalks, but now I accept it as the way it is. I’m a visitor, and must accommodate. To further the evolutionary analogy I am a small furry mammal (cyclist), whose survival depends on avoiding being trampled by the dinosaurs (autos), whose evolutionary pathway may eventually lead to much less ferocious lizards.
(If I were really provocative, I might further suggest that the small furry mammalian cyclists themselves evolved into a superior species…but I won't go there.
)
Even as an experienced urban commuter, I will often flee to the sidewalks, little used by pedestrians out in suburbia. Some major [better-paved] roads though, like Schoenherr and Gratiot do have continuous sidewalks for long distances. I have developed a technique for riding under such circumstances I call ”bolus riding.” (Bolus = “a small rounded mass of a substance, especially of chewed food at the moment of swallowing”; think of swallowed food as it passes down the esophagus.)
Since the flow of traffic is coordinated by traffic signals, traffic usually flows as a bolus. So using my rearview mirror, when I see a bolus of cars behind me, I go onto a driveway or intersecting street (all with sidewalk curb cuts) and on to the sidewalk. After the bolus passes as seen in the mirror I go back onto the street where I can ride much faster, until the next bolus of cars arrives. I estimate that more than one-half of the distance can be ridden comfortably on these otherwise hazardous roads…
I used to feel resentful that I was self-relegated off to the sidewalks, but now I accept it as the way it is. I’m a visitor, and must accommodate. To further the evolutionary analogy I am a small furry mammal (cyclist), whose survival depends on avoiding being trampled by the dinosaurs (autos), whose evolutionary pathway may eventually lead to much less ferocious lizards.
(If I were really provocative, I might further suggest that the small furry mammalian cyclists themselves evolved into a superior species…but I won't go there.
)Last edited by Jim from Boston; 01-23-18 at 07:14 PM.
01-23-18, 12:28 PM
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on my last commute route, I had a right turn down a one-way street, the wrong way. for that turn, & that short 1/4 mile stretch I rode the sidewalk. there were never any pedestrians. pretty rare circumstance, tho
01-23-18, 01:26 PM
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Is it in a business district? It's probably not illegal unless it's in a business district.
As long as you yield to others (peds have the right of way on sidewalks), and ride slow enough for conditions (typical short sight lines to peds popping out of areas obscured by plants, buildings or vehicles), you should be okay. Be especially careful at intersections and driveway crossings where bike speed traffic is unexpected. It's ALL on you.
As long as you yield to others (peds have the right of way on sidewalks), and ride slow enough for conditions (typical short sight lines to peds popping out of areas obscured by plants, buildings or vehicles), you should be okay. Be especially careful at intersections and driveway crossings where bike speed traffic is unexpected. It's ALL on you.
01-23-18, 01:28 PM
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I ride on sidewalks in some situations. Gotta go slow and watch for all intersecting drives and walkways and be subordinate to pedestrians. I've been doing it for 50 years and haven't killed a pedestrian yet.
01-23-18, 02:05 PM
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You're the one not understanding. I will clarify.
Have you seen the Newman/Peterson interview? Peterson is trying to be as clear as he can with his words because he wants to be understood, and the interviewer, Newman, is trying to misconstrue what he's saying to make it appear like he's saying something else. It feels like you're doing that here.
Anyway, check this out:
Why Can't People Hear What Jordan Peterson Is Saying?
Is [the sidewalk] in a business district? [Riding on the sidewalk is] probably not illegal unless [the sidewalk is] in a business district.
[While riding on a sidewalk, as] long as you yield to others (peds have the right of way on sidewalks), and ride slow enough for conditions (typical short sight lines to peds popping out of areas obscured by plants, buildings or vehicles), you should be [reasonably safe and legal (if it's not a business district)]. Be especially careful at intersections and driveway crossings where bike speed traffic is unexpected. It's ALL on you.
So, I have no idea how you got "authorities in the USA [are] discriminating against [bicycling on] normal suburban or commercial streets" from those words. Anyone?[While riding on a sidewalk, as] long as you yield to others (peds have the right of way on sidewalks), and ride slow enough for conditions (typical short sight lines to peds popping out of areas obscured by plants, buildings or vehicles), you should be [reasonably safe and legal (if it's not a business district)]. Be especially careful at intersections and driveway crossings where bike speed traffic is unexpected. It's ALL on you.
Have you seen the Newman/Peterson interview? Peterson is trying to be as clear as he can with his words because he wants to be understood, and the interviewer, Newman, is trying to misconstrue what he's saying to make it appear like he's saying something else. It feels like you're doing that here.
Anyway, check this out:
Why Can't People Hear What Jordan Peterson Is Saying?
01-23-18, 02:16 PM
#21
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I do it occasionally. There are a few spots on regular routes where it just seems to be safer (high volume traffic), more efficient (certain turns or traffic light sequences) or more considerate (a few short but steep uphill sections where you'd hold up traffic even more). The key lies in correctly evaluating situations and finding the right balance instead of stubbornly sticking with one option only.
01-23-18, 02:18 PM
#22
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Thread Starter
It is a mix of residential and business
on this stretch of road I ride.
Is it in a business district? It's probably not illegal unless it's in a business district.
As long as you yield to others (peds have the right of way on sidewalks), and ride slow enough for conditions (typical short sight lines to peds popping out of areas obscured by plants, buildings or vehicles), you should be okay. Be especially careful at intersections and driveway crossings where bike speed traffic is unexpected. It's ALL on you.
As long as you yield to others (peds have the right of way on sidewalks), and ride slow enough for conditions (typical short sight lines to peds popping out of areas obscured by plants, buildings or vehicles), you should be okay. Be especially careful at intersections and driveway crossings where bike speed traffic is unexpected. It's ALL on you.
01-23-18, 02:37 PM
#24
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01-23-18, 03:21 PM
#25
Cycleway town
It depends on your town.
Central London, hell no. I had a toddler on the back and even then I stirred up a lot of police attention, and lept into chaotic traffic whenever it looked like they were gonna pounce.
Here in Milton Keynes though, non-motorists all share the city-wide pedestrian/cycleway system. But there are still places we're not supposed to ride. However, because of the common mix between pedestrians and cyclists, it's just accepted as the norm. Even between retail buildings where there are 'Cyclists dismount' signs, even your bored copper will turn a blind eye - unless you're going anti-socially fast, I expect...
Central London, hell no. I had a toddler on the back and even then I stirred up a lot of police attention, and lept into chaotic traffic whenever it looked like they were gonna pounce.
Here in Milton Keynes though, non-motorists all share the city-wide pedestrian/cycleway system. But there are still places we're not supposed to ride. However, because of the common mix between pedestrians and cyclists, it's just accepted as the norm. Even between retail buildings where there are 'Cyclists dismount' signs, even your bored copper will turn a blind eye - unless you're going anti-socially fast, I expect...