Speedway2

Can't you turn the guitar upside down and strum up vs down......

MinnMan

As previously mentioned, EVERY LBS in the US is a Salsa dealer....

Herzlos

Given each manufacturer wants to stand out as the provider of the best bike, and the retaillers want everything in stock to sell, I think it's pretty likely that everything will converge on what is defined as good at the time. It's just a sign of a mature market.

Bike shop customers want to buy fast, comfortable drop bar bikes with good brakes and a good range of gears.

The same happened to cars - there's really not much difference between most of them now.

PeteHski

There are many different types of car, but in any particular category there are many similar options from different manufacturers and very few complete dogs. Back in the 70s and 80s there were far fewer categories and options within each category and a lot more complete dogs! It's a similar story with bikes apart from the proliferation of BSOs at the lowest end of the market.

Koyote

This statement astounds me.

I can drive 45 minutes to the nearest large city and choose from two-seater sports cars (Corvette, Miata, all manner of Porsches), econoboxes (e.g., Corolla, Civic), sedans from small (Camry, Fusion) to large (Cadillac, BMW), SUVs from small to huge, pickup trucks, minivans, etc. And I can choose from standard internal combustion engines, hybrids, and full-on EVs. All at a large range of price points. You really think there's "not much difference between most of them"?

MinnMan

Furthermore, the number of manufacturers in the market has increased. 50 years ago, it was pretty much the US Big 3 and a few imports such as VW. In the 70s and 80s, the Japanese companies began to have a huge impact, as well as greater influence from various Euro brands, from BMW to Volvo Then came the Koreans. And now, there are all kinds of new domestic entries to the market, from Tesla to Rivian.

and soon, we'll have a wave of Chinese brands coming onshore, for better or for worse.

mstateglfr 

Can you just accept that some shops actually have Salsa bikes in stock on the floor, while other shops would be able to order a Salsa bike because they have a QBP account?
My gosh.
We get it, QBP will sell a Salsa bike to any shop with an account. That is very different from shops that have Salsa bikes in stock on the floor to sit on and test.

It may be technically incorrect to call one shop a 'Salsa dealer' based on industry realities, but in layman's terms, its spot on.

MinnMan

Well, OK, but the thread is about how the OP can't find the bike he wants, and my take on that is that he's not being resourceful. If he wants a Surly or a Salsa, he can walk past all the bikes on display which offend him so much and discuss purchasing the one he wants quite easily.

Can you accept that?

unterhausen

The amazing thing about the bike community is how diverse it is. People are always trying new things. A lot of innovations are driven by a small group that builds what they want. If people wanted bikes like what the op wants, there would be a lot of them around already. The resources are there. Bike shops are not the end of the story. A lot of people get this wrong in the case of gravel bikes. Gravel bikes are something that came from people making them themselves, not an industry invention that was later foisted on a naive public that really wanted a rohloff equipped touring bike. When the industry finally offered them, they took off because they are more practical than a racing bike for a lot of people. And incidentally, many of them make a pretty good touring bike. Most of the industry ignored this niche for a long time, QBP is an exception. Same thing happened with 29" mountain bikes, the industry was perfectly happy with 26"

mstateglfr 

1- The OP is trolling or not serious. I hope that is something we can both actually agree on. What the OP wants is a unicorn, so lets leave the OP's wants back on page 1.
2- If we are going to actually take the OP seriously, then the OP is frustrated there are no bikes IN STOCK that match how the OP rides. So in that instance, a shop that physically carries the bikes you are referring to and displays them on the floor is the solution. Just saying 'it can be ordered' doesnt resolve the issue(one of many stated issues), which is that nothing is in stock on the shop floor that appeals to the OP. So yeah, when a shop has a bunch of Surly and Salsa bikes in stock on their shop floor, they will be viewed as a Surly and Salsa dealer when compared to shops that only have Trek/Giant/Specialized on display.
3- The OP wants a flat bar rolhoff hub touring bike. Salsa does not sell such a bike. To do what you suggest, the OP would have to talk with the shop and commit to buying a Salsa Marrakesh frameset, then build it up with a flatbar and rolhoff hub. And this would need to be done sight unseen without testing the bike fit. That is a very expensive risk.


I dont think the OP is serious or genuine in these complaints, but I also dont think your solution is realistic.
"I cant find the type of bike I like in a shop!"
"You just arent being resourceful enough! You need to go buy a frameset without seeing it in person much less confirming you like the geometry, and then you need to order all the components and have the shop build it up after you paid for it!"

Yeah...that doesnt solve the issue of not seeing the type of bike the OP likes on a shop floor.

MinnMan

Also, in my area, one would be hard pressed to find ANY bike shop that does not have at least a few QBP bikes on display - Surlys, Salsas, or All-Cities. From the high end racing shops with their Warbirds to the commuter-oriented places with some LHT, to the hipster shops with Space Horses in wild paint jobs.

I am in and out of a whole lot of LBSs, maybe 5 or 6 different shops with quite diverse clientele and offerings, with some frequency.
And none of them would be considered "QBP dealerships" - they all mainly feature other brands, but also carry from a few to many of the above.

Perhaps the Twin Cities are not typical in this way, as QBP is a Minnesota company?

unterhausen

I feel like actually being to try a bike is overblown. People aren't good at judging what they are experiencing. And the fit on the test bike is probably different from their normal fit in significant ways. Which has tripped up people trying to do serious bike reviews in the past. I know that if a bike has an extra 1" of stack height, it's going to feel bad to me, very slow. I try not to let that happen, but a lot of people don't know their preferences that well. Someone here bought a custom frame that the LBS built up and the customer was really unhappy with it. Then the shop realized they never did a fit. After they did matched the customer's usual fit, it was fine.

How many shops are going to that effort for a test ride? It's not zero, but close.

Herzlos

Sorry, I mean between brands. So for a given class of car, if you take the badges of can you expect anyone to tell the difference between a SUV made by BMW, Audi or Mercedes? Or an econobox made by Hyundai, Toyota or Ford?

In the same way road bikes are all pretty similar, the biggest distinctions being brand and sizing.

base2 

I was probably a bit harsh in my last post.It may be that my tone was unwarranted.

Take a look at this: https://www.rodbikes.com/images/gall...?tag=makeshift

The seafoam/celeste green one with the super stretched chainstays is my bike. Really, any bike you want is available. You just gotta know where to look.

veganbikes

I would happily stock touring bikes, I love bicycle touring a lot as well as bike packing and general adventuring but if I stock purely what I like I would be out of business. I stock many different brands and nothing really homogenous about anything aside from having about 3-4 different drivetrain manufacturers and bikes generally being a standard shape. I mean all bikes are pretty similar so there isn't a ton of variation just in brief looks at bikes but there are differences when you "go under the hood" so to speak.

In the end if you wanted a touring bike from me I can get you what you want, I will probably recommend Co-Motion as I have one and love it but I didn't get to try it out first however I did do research on the geometry and rode some other bikes similar to it and asked some folks and did plenty of thinking on the subject. I love the bike and at the time wouldn't have changed a thing, now I would have gotten a different frame from them with wider tire clearance and run a 2x11 and gotten set up for a dynamo right off the bat but that is just my tastes changing slightly over the years, it is still an awesome bike and a great touring bike.

However for the one person a year looking for a straight up touring bike it isn't going to ever be worth my tiny floor plan to stock a bunch of them and just stocking one doesn't make a lot of sense however with a fitting and a frank discussion on what you plan on doing we can get you the bike of your dreams without having to have sat on it first because with a custom frame builder and a good fitter they will get your measurements down and that bike will fit you like a glove if you are honest with both parties and with the right component selection you will be all set.

In terms of things like Rohloff, it is a great hub but a niche hub and while I personally own one having a bike in the shop with one that isn't my own is a tough one. Most Rohloff is more on the custom end but if you want a Rohloff generally you know what you want and a stock bike with a Rohloff is not going to be something you are interested in. I basically went with a stock bike because custom wasn't an option for certain things I needed so I had to upgrade at my own expense which is fine but would not be something a customer would want to do especially after already plunking down in my case 11k (it is a dual battery Bosch e-bike) I would love to have a shop that deals in that stuff more exclusively but again need to keep my lights on and my staff paid and make good money so I can live and thrive.

prj71

I'm thinking this thread could have ended right here if the OP actually understood this concept.


Nobody really buys these types of bikes anymore. YOU are in the minority. Road Bikes, Gravel Bikes and Mountain Bikes are what the public wants. Touring bikes died in the 80's. The number of riders who want a specific bike for fully loaded on road touring is small. The number of riders who want a specific bike for fully loaded gravel touring/adventures is very large.

Oh...Then there is this e-bike craze now also.

PeteHski

Touring is not my thing, but what would be the problem in using a modern gravel bike? They look ideal for touring.

1989Pre 

That is a bit of an exaggeration.., and here I am thinking that the options in graphics, components and frame design & material had been drastically-reduced in number as cost-cutting measures by the manufacturers. As described by me and others, more options can be had by requesting models not on the floor of the shop, but O.P. was specifically talking about those seen when you walk in. So, in a way you have a point, what is on the shop floor does not represent the entire market. Maybe a way of approaching this, then, is to ask, "Why isn't touring more popular?"

prj71

Without splitting hairs...Today's modern gravel bike is the new touring bike and it works well both off and on road which is the appeal.

MinnMan

Yeah, I'm just not getting the significance or importance of this point. So what? If you want something that isn't popular in the market, there are ways to find it. If you want the experience that the thing you want is prominent on a salesfloor, you seem to be seeking self-validation more than you care about finding the bike that is right for you.

I get that if it's not on the salesfloor, you can't do a test ride. But a competent LBS tech. can take your measurements, but you on a trainer, etc. and make sure that the right size is ordered.

Branko D

You've got a point. Here I think Canyon struck gold at least here in Europe where although you don't see the bike on the shop floor, you can order it online and return it without any problems within a month and I know people who did just that. Lifesaver for us in smaller cities where the local bike shop just won't stock a, say, TT bike.

Of course if you want something truly esoteric... ordering it custom, sight unseen, is often the only option and it brings risks with it. However I think that wanting something esoteric without knowing exactly what and why you need it and what bike geometry fits you is borne out of preconceived notions, not real knowledge backed by experience and understanding.

If the OP went "I'm building an around the world touring bike and I'm annoyed that there are no bike shops which stock the frames I'd like to try." I'd have a lot more understanding than this "I want a different bike because I am different".

prj71

He's right. It's not an exaggeration...Between mountain bikes, fat bikes, gravel bikes, recreational hybrid bikes and road bikes and so many different tire widths available...These are the good times right now.

Why isn't touring more popular? It still is...but it's made the move to gravel roads with gravel bikes.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features...aping-cycling/

1989Pre 

O.P. cited the lack of diversity (I'm para-phrasing) in the bikes at his LBS, so perhaps those types may be absent there.

Branko D

If I had the time to tour (someday!) it'd be on a road bike, with a tailfin rack behind me, a change of clothes, and credit card in pocket. A gravel bike would be my option #2, but definitely not a fat, slow touring bike with panniers.

Sadly, not possible for me (yet). One can dream, though.

Probably a lot more people would like to tour but it's just not compatible with their lives. Given that and other options to tour, it's no wonder that classical touring bikes are just not popular.

MinnMan

It is noteworthy that the OP posted up a storm and then disappeared.