old26incher

just got a Ross bicycle (8o's?) with the shimano integer FF system drive train. strangest thing I've seen. rear cassette is a 5 spd fixed with an eagle 2 derailer and the front is a 52/39 freewheel crank, the cranks move reverse while the chainrings move with the wheel. hope I'm explaining this right help me with some info please!

Walter

The Shimano FF system debuted in the mid to late 1970s. It was on a range of bikes that included Schwinns (both 1 piece cranks like Varsitys and 3 pc setups on the "World" lineup) and a whole host of department store bikes.

The main feature of the FF was that it lets you shift while coasting. Oftentimes it was linked with Shimano's Positron derailleurs which were an early and not very successful attempt at indexed shifting.

FF died out by the mid80s. Schwinn Varsities went away and the extra weight wasn't seen as an adequate trade for the benefit of shifting w/o pedaling on bikes that were marketed as "lightweights.".

Dave Stohler

From what I understand, replacement parts are no longer made for this line. Not that it was really that good an idea to begin with....
Save it as a novelty. In 30 years, nobody will have a clue as to what it is.

L J Horton

The positron cables are still available through some distributors. Oddly enough they come in different lengths for different frames. The cable --which is really a stiff, non-woven wire-- can not be cut because of the special ends.
As I recall, if properly maintained, they shifted pretty good, but everything had to be fairly close to perfect. It was kind of nice compared to the more common friction shifters. But even those weren't bad once you got a little experience using them.

DieselDan

Funny, I've never heard or seen one of these until yesterday when my LBS had one in for repair, and now it comes up in the forums.

Michel Gagnon

There is also a hazard with this system. Imagine dropping the chain or getting your socks or trousers stuck into the chain. With a normal bike, you stop pedalling and the chain stops moving. Not here.

old26incher

thanks for the info. the system seems to be working in very good condition, and with a front and rear chainguard tighter than any other I've seen it should be ok to ride.

michael.grygier

What's up? I just began restoring a 1970's Schwinn Suburban (christmas gift) and I ran into the FF system that you all have been talking about. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction as to what I can do about a rear wheel for this bike. You see, I found the frame and some of it components left by a dumpster, I inspected the bike (at night) and it looked restorable, so I snatched it. The only down side is that it had no wheels with it! I hope I didn't break any law! Anyways, can anyone help me out with this? thanks.

- 60mph club (Kinter Hill - Edinboro, PA)

frameteam2003

Regular"old style"5 speed wheels and derailers will work with it --you'll just have an extra freewheel in the BB.
And BTY those FF rear hubs are not fixed --they will slip but it take some pressure to to it---safty thing
incase the chain jumped the cogs.

T-Mar

And the one thing you've all missed is the Integer crank attachment, It was Shimano's original attempt at a splined bottom spindle and crankarm.It predates OctaLink by about 20 years. I've still got some crankarms and spindles, if anybody needs them.

LWaB

Same as Shimano Selecta?

John E

I am no fan or defender of this system, but I believe the rear cogset could freewheel in such an emergency. The front freewheel had a lower friction threshold than the rear, but I do not recall the rear being completely "fixed gear."

Jeffluke

I have a low mile 80's Lotus w/FF System, if you need parts for it, it is a strange setup, that someone spent a lot of time trying to recreate the (already working wheel)....I may part the bike out if you need anything off it. Jeff

T-Mar

Yes and no. The design of interface between the spindle and crankarm was the same, but, if I recall correctly, the spindle itself was different to accept the front freewheel. If you are asking me because you require some Selecta parts, PM me with your needs. There may be some parts at the shop.

Alao, I was negligent in pointing out something in my previous post. It implies the Integer crankset was available only with the splined spindle. In fact, there were several different versions of the Integer crankset, including cottered and Ashtabula designs.


Excllent description. You hit the nail on the head. BTW, Shimano's terminology for the rear cog mechanism was a "friction freewheel".

Regardless of the merits, I would not be suprised to see Shimano resurrect the Front Freewheel system some time in the future. They have a habit of re-engineering and re-introducing their old concepts. They did it with both splined spindles and indexed shifting. It is almost as if they have to prove to the world that their original concept was correct.

mjgrygier

Jeff, hey, thanks for your willingness to part out your bike to me. I am begining to understand more and more that cyclists like to help each other out. This is bizarre...but the other night, before I called it a night, I began to consider maybe asking for parts if I ever ran into a problem. Then, whala! your message pops up in the forum. Pretty cool I think! But heck yes, I need a rear wheel that is designed to go with the FF system. You see, it is almost Christmas and I haven't much money (thanks to student loan repayments and PA crappy job market for Criminal Justice 4-year degree holders). However, I try and not let that stop me and go on the hunt for very rusted yet antique bikes that I think someone would enjoy if all fixed up. Once I get permission to take the bike, I then strip it of everything, to included the paint and years of caked rust. Basiclaly, I have taken a liking to restoring bikes while waiting on some jobs to fall through. Anyways, about the Schwinn Suburban (ladies frame)... I have the majority of the parts, just not the wheels. If you or anyone could help me out with this, I am sure that my sister-in-law would love it. Oh yeah, what would you reccomend me doing about tarnish parts? How do you get the tarnish out?

for those of you who are curious as to what I will be doing with the bike. I will be croming the heck out of it by polishing it the old fashion way, bare hands (can't afford the fancy stuff). Then I will be making a few sets of pin-stripes for the fenders and then reprinting the labeled decals. the paint job (hunter green) is going to be a little costly and that is about all I can afford... HOWEVER, the way I look at it, for how great of a wife Becky has been to my big brother, she deserves a nice classic ride for the years to come.

thankyou again for taking an intrest in my posting. Cheers all! :-)

- Mike Grygier

LWaB

No thanks, just interested to know.

grolby

Oh my, I certainly hope not. I'd prefer they spend the marketing money on something useful, like a reincarnation of Biopace .

crazyb

I have a FF system on my ride to work bike, and it shifts flawlessly. For in town riding with frequent stops and steep hills with stops, it comes in quite handy. I wonder how many of the FF "bashers" in this thread have any appreciable riding time with this system?

mjgrygier

I too am interested in puting the FF system together and trying it out before I send it to my sis-in-law for her Chirstmas gift. For the record, I was very excited to see a concept that I had never even knew existed (FF system). I actually found the bike in a dumpster! the frame was in great shape (only a few dents on the fenders)! The only down side is that because it have any wheels or chain ith it, I have no idea what to use for either! Also, where in the hec can I even find the original style housing for this bike? The majority of its cables, well, all of its cables and houseing were shot, so I kep a few samples but threw out the rest. Can anyone help me out here please? many thanks.

p.s. humorous quote about hating...quotes.

Mooo

I rode a bike so equipped from Boston to Washington DC one summer. Does that count?

FWIW, it is the one thing that made me swear off sh*m*n* to the extent possible - especially their proprietary stuff.

crazyb

What did you not like about the system? was it not reliable? Wouldn't stay adjusted? Parts broke? Just curious as I like it for in town stop and go, and like I said, it has always shifted very nicely and has needed no tinkering or adjusting at all.

Mooo

The lack of backward, lateral, or forward compatability. When I got back from the Boston-DC trip I wanted some lower gears. Was going to be difficult - I was told you could get an ashtabula triple, but not for shimano's FFS. So it meant a new rear wheel as well. Of course shimano's support was zero, after all, it had been discontinued a couple weeks by then.
In the intervening 25 years I've owned one shimano crank and 5 hubs.

Jeffluke

With all said about the FF system, I have seen this system on low end bikes in the 80's and it seemed as if it should of been on more expensive bikes, this was the first time I rode a bike with FF, and a low mile set up, I was very impressed in how this system shifted, again not a very top end bike at all.....and as for recreating the wheel, I would say they came close.....and ran out of money trying to make it, or prove it, as an item to replace what already worked, I still have the entire system.

quickbooks

I have a Schwinn front freewheel bike that I love dearly. I find it a great city bike for constant shifting in traffic. I had an accident that ruined the rear wheel. My local bike shop was not listening when I brought the bike in for repair, and they threw away the old wheel and replaced it with a clutched wheel. Can't get the old parts back! They all looked real ignorant when I explained how the shift will not work the same with the part changes.

Can anyone help me return the rear wheel to its original function? I accept direct contact through my forum profile.

bigkev57

Hi guys, I own a streetfind rubbish collection 10 speed National Mitsubisha Electric original chrome silver framie ex Japan all round town cruiser with the 52/39 setup Positron rear and Shimano 600 Arabesque old school front found as is in the running gear dept ..im stoked ..closest toleranced best gear changer cruiser i have ever owned around town and yes my mates also pointed out the Shimano FF Integer 3 freewheelin /fixed geared crank (now theres an oxymoron if ever there was...or maybe thats me)aspect to me b4 i was experienced at identifying random bike features..i gotta agree with some of the comments here..its the smoothest wierdest most direct gear system to crank on any bike i have owned..apart from my 9 speed Cannondale CAAD 4 F700 mountaine basher..or is that "crack and fail"..nahhh its not carbon...its an aluminium smoothie..cheers guys Kev