3d printing.
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Only to state, "cause I did it". C'mon.
The question as put forth requires the answer, for your own good walk away from your friends experiments.
#29
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I don't think I was ever going to go with a fork. But I like the seat bag or phone mount idea. Could make it fit my stuff perfectly
#30
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A friend is an engineer at an small aircraft manufacturer. He recently was moved to a department where he has access to a 3d printer. I recently introduced him to road biking and the last time I saw him he showed me this material and asked if I wanted anything printed with it. His idea was the front fork.
He says it's cheap and stronger than carbon fiber. Felt very light as well. He made it sound like it wasn't a problem to have whatever I want printed up but I just want to owe him 1 favor not a dozen.
So I was wondering if anyone has done anything like this before or has any idea of maybe the most useful thing to have printed. Would seem like a waste to not take advantage of the opportunity.
He says it's cheap and stronger than carbon fiber. Felt very light as well. He made it sound like it wasn't a problem to have whatever I want printed up but I just want to owe him 1 favor not a dozen.
So I was wondering if anyone has done anything like this before or has any idea of maybe the most useful thing to have printed. Would seem like a waste to not take advantage of the opportunity.
My 3d printed bike projects:
- home-brewed bike light
- shims for a trailer
On the back-burner:
- helmet/bar mount for another light
- sensor mount for a computer (I broke the old one by not paying attention to the sharper curve of a carbon fork)
- quick release for a trunk rack
#32
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Soon after making you a fork he can make you one of these:
https://mashable.com/2012/02/06/3d-printer-jawbone/
https://mashable.com/2012/02/06/3d-printer-jawbone/
#33
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What is 3D printing good for in plastics?
Low stress, non structural pieces. Where does 3-D have a great application? Mock up.
Reality is, if sticking in the plastics family, there is no substitute for injection molding. If you need more structure, inject into the mold glass filaments to increase tensile strength. Why not make the whole thing out of glass? Weight and no ductility aka fracture resistance. Better strength to weight? Carbon fiber. Composites if trying to optimize mechanical properties like modulus of elasticity, weight and yield strength make a lot of sense. Nobody has figured out how to do this on a printer yet.
No doubt 3D printers will evolve...but bi-material aka composite printing will be very tricky technically for a balance of weight and strength in different planes.
Generally when a product is developed in CAD...a virtual 3D model, many times engineers will want some touchy-feely parts...or design studio will want to make up a representation of a topographical surface to evaluate aesthetics. This is done in clay at the design studio initially and then the surface is scanned to create the math surface. For more mundane function parts, stereo lithography is popular to create non structural models of proposed parts...either to scale or reduced size. Latter is where 3D printers will shine and replace SLA models. The public...maybe the OP falls in this camp, blindly believe that many great parts...a bike fork (shudder...lol) can be made on a 3D printer. No doubt, average Joe will buy a 3D printer and even try this. Kind of like the first guys that developed air planes who didn't quite have the right L/D equation worked out who ran their plane off the cliff in an attempt to fly. Never heard from those guys again. The Wright brothers who btw owned a bicycle shop, were a little smarter than that.
Low stress, non structural pieces. Where does 3-D have a great application? Mock up.
Reality is, if sticking in the plastics family, there is no substitute for injection molding. If you need more structure, inject into the mold glass filaments to increase tensile strength. Why not make the whole thing out of glass? Weight and no ductility aka fracture resistance. Better strength to weight? Carbon fiber. Composites if trying to optimize mechanical properties like modulus of elasticity, weight and yield strength make a lot of sense. Nobody has figured out how to do this on a printer yet.
No doubt 3D printers will evolve...but bi-material aka composite printing will be very tricky technically for a balance of weight and strength in different planes.
Generally when a product is developed in CAD...a virtual 3D model, many times engineers will want some touchy-feely parts...or design studio will want to make up a representation of a topographical surface to evaluate aesthetics. This is done in clay at the design studio initially and then the surface is scanned to create the math surface. For more mundane function parts, stereo lithography is popular to create non structural models of proposed parts...either to scale or reduced size. Latter is where 3D printers will shine and replace SLA models. The public...maybe the OP falls in this camp, blindly believe that many great parts...a bike fork (shudder...lol) can be made on a 3D printer. No doubt, average Joe will buy a 3D printer and even try this. Kind of like the first guys that developed air planes who didn't quite have the right L/D equation worked out who ran their plane off the cliff in an attempt to fly. Never heard from those guys again. The Wright brothers who btw owned a bicycle shop, were a little smarter than that.
Last edited by Campag4life; 09-24-13 at 07:12 AM.
#34
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new helmet?
bar clamp kindle holder/ipad holder for when on the trainer?
perfectly shaped case for your repair kit?
brainstorming before coffee is weak at best.
good luck!
bar clamp kindle holder/ipad holder for when on the trainer?
perfectly shaped case for your repair kit?
brainstorming before coffee is weak at best.
good luck!
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Make a streamlined tail box trunk you can mount on the rack. Or Cervelo S5-like tube shapes you can mount over your round tubes (and pay attention to the joints, it's cool the way they did those). Airfoil instrument panel if you put stuff on your handlebar, or how about clip-on aerobars? Maybe something more mundane like quick-mount fenders and maybe a chain/ring cover. Or, personally, I'd jump at the chance to 3-d print my front fairing but that's a whole nuther can of worms ...
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Make a streamlined tail box trunk you can mount on the rack. Or Cervelo S5-like tube shapes you can mount over your round tubes (and pay attention to the joints, it's cool the way they did those). Airfoil instrument panel if you put stuff on your handlebar, or how about clip-on aerobars? Maybe something more mundane like quick-mount fenders and maybe a chain/ring cover. Or, personally, I'd jump at the chance to 3-d print my front fairing but that's a whole nuther can of worms ...
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Stronger than CF? That seems highly unlikely. Most 3d printers use plastic or resin although some of the high-end printers can print metal. There's a lot of design/engineering for a fork, I'd start with something simpler. Betting you could do a really awesome tool holder or bottle cage.
The real advantage of 3d printing is that you can make things that are custom or would be impossible with conventional manufacturing.
The real advantage of 3d printing is that you can make things that are custom or would be impossible with conventional manufacturing.
#40
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You should make something like a mount for your phone, light, speedometer or something like that.
Maybe you could replace the seat bag with a little unit that attaches rigidly to the seat rails and is compartmented to hold your CO2 and multitool snugly.
Just don't make a fork, though... for heaven's sake, it's one of the few components on your entire bike that has a good chance of KILLING YOU if it fails!
Maybe you could replace the seat bag with a little unit that attaches rigidly to the seat rails and is compartmented to hold your CO2 and multitool snugly.
Just don't make a fork, though... for heaven's sake, it's one of the few components on your entire bike that has a good chance of KILLING YOU if it fails!
#41
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Make a streamlined tail box trunk you can mount on the rack. Or Cervelo S5-like tube shapes you can mount over your round tubes (and pay attention to the joints, it's cool the way they did those). Airfoil instrument panel if you put stuff on your handlebar, or how about clip-on aerobars? Maybe something more mundane like quick-mount fenders and maybe a chain/ring cover. Or, personally, I'd jump at the chance to 3-d print my front fairing but that's a whole nuther can of worms ...
Also see:
second gen VRZ lugset:
#42
Portland Fred
We should be using 3D printing for everything. Need a new tire or tube? Just print one. New chain or cables? Ditto. Want a cassette made from a single piece but are too cheap to buy Red? No problemo. About to go on a ride and discovered you're out of gel? Just print a few packets (the printed ones would probably taste better too). And what better way to upgrade your shifters than to just print the ones you want?
Just imagine the possibilities...
Just imagine the possibilities...
#43
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We should be using 3D printing for everything. Need a new tire or tube? Just print one. New chain or cables? Ditto. Want a cassette made from a single piece but are too cheap to buy Red? No problemo. About to go on a ride and discovered you're out of gel? Just print a few packets (the printed ones would probably taste better too). And what better way to upgrade your shifters than to just print the ones you want?
Just imagine the possibilities...
Just imagine the possibilities...
#45
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Actually I agree with you, but of all the silly things you mentioned, the one-piece "Red" cassette has some potential. Metal printing is done (one way) by laying down a layer of the metal dust and then "printing on it with a laser to fuse the dust. Then the next thin layer of dust is laid down and so on. Cassettes aren't critical parts regarding safety, and they don't require a tremendous amount of strength, just lots of abrasion resistance. A printed cassette could work, at least for a little while. I will say this: it wouldn't surprise me to learn that SRAM printed steel prototypes of the Power Dome cassette to see how it looked and worked before actually cutting any. Brilliant idea!
It would surprise me greatly if SRAM had that capability in house.
#46
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Really? I'm surprised you say that. A company that makes it's living from small parts design and execution. Don't know about the metal printers, but plastic ones are way down in price. Way under k$100. A bottle cap manufacturer I know has it. Why not SRAM?
It's funny. When I complain about high bike stuff pricing that seems out of line with common sense about manufacturing costs, folks pile on about all the extra costs of a major player doing business, like R&D. Now the first time I attribute an R&D capability to a big bike parts company, you tell me they probably don't have it. Gotta love the 41.
It's funny. When I complain about high bike stuff pricing that seems out of line with common sense about manufacturing costs, folks pile on about all the extra costs of a major player doing business, like R&D. Now the first time I attribute an R&D capability to a big bike parts company, you tell me they probably don't have it. Gotta love the 41.
#47
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Really? I'm surprised you say that. A company that makes it's living from small parts design and execution. Don't know about the metal printers, but plastic ones are way down in price. Way under k$100. A bottle cap manufacturer I know has it. Why not SRAM?
It's funny. When I complain about high bike stuff pricing that seems out of line with common sense about manufacturing costs, folks pile on about all the extra costs of a major player doing business, like R&D. Now the first time I attribute an R&D capability to a big bike parts company, you tell me they probably don't have it. Gotta love the 41.
It's funny. When I complain about high bike stuff pricing that seems out of line with common sense about manufacturing costs, folks pile on about all the extra costs of a major player doing business, like R&D. Now the first time I attribute an R&D capability to a big bike parts company, you tell me they probably don't have it. Gotta love the 41.
Plastic printers are not metal printers. If they have one its likely plastic. I'm a design engineer. Just speaking from my experience.
#48
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#49
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3D printed metal parts have two major advantages:
1) Rapid prototype testing.
Setting up a full tooling for manufacturing is relatively complicated, and can be quite expensive initially. BMW uses 3D parts for testing certain parts without doing a full tooling setup. 3D printed metal parts are structurally indistinguishable from machined (within a few percent on mechanical properties). I'd bet SRAM uses some 3D printing for development.
2) Impossible structures.
Things like the lugs above, one piece cassettes, interlocking structures, material removal. If you want light weight, 3D printing is the way to go. Even injection modeling has limits, since the part has to be extracted from the mold.
Both have uses in the bike industry. The first just simplifies R&D, the second will take longer to develop because you need a 3D printer production line.
#50
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No way to know. This reference https://www.inkpal.com/ink-news/3d-pr...l-gold-copper/ says the cost to print metal is 300X plastic. I have no idea what that works out to. I was just amused about the inability to hang the cost on a big supplier of bike parts.