Gravel bike with road tyres or Road bike with gravel tyres
05-15-21, 03:45 PM
#51
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Most people made assumptions about what the OP was talking about. Just as they made assumptions as to what I was talking about.
Neither of us specifically defined anything.
In the OP's case, my imagination or assumption was that if they were going to have to change tires to ride pavement or gravel, that the gravel wasn't as well packed as some are. And if that is the case, I still think a change of gearing will be needed too.
If a wheelset with a different sized cassette is enough change to need a different sized chain then that gets well beyond my desire to have just one bike.
So there are considerations that have not be discussed with the OP. To everyone that assumes the OP is riding in conditions that one bike will serve well is silly. The exact conditions are not defined. Your gravel isn't my gravel and likely isn't the OP's gravel.
Sure there is a good chance they may not care. And I don't mean "care" disparagingly. Only in the sense it doesn't matter to them.
Neither of us specifically defined anything.
In the OP's case, my imagination or assumption was that if they were going to have to change tires to ride pavement or gravel, that the gravel wasn't as well packed as some are. And if that is the case, I still think a change of gearing will be needed too.
If a wheelset with a different sized cassette is enough change to need a different sized chain then that gets well beyond my desire to have just one bike.
So there are considerations that have not be discussed with the OP. To everyone that assumes the OP is riding in conditions that one bike will serve well is silly. The exact conditions are not defined. Your gravel isn't my gravel and likely isn't the OP's gravel.
Sure there is a good chance they may not care. And I don't mean "care" disparagingly. Only in the sense it doesn't matter to them.
05-15-21, 05:51 PM
#52
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But go ahead - dig your heels in more deeply.
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05-15-21, 06:30 PM
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Well you've failed to educate me why I'm wrong. I never said that one bike only wasn't an option. I only put out there that two bikes might still be an option since everyone else was on the one-bike-bandwagon.
Still it seems you are offended that I used such harsh wording.... suck. I apologize that that offends you so much. Don't go all Sheldon Cooper on a phrase that was, to me, humorous more so than a accurate description of what I was attempting to say.
Since the OP said they were going to swap wheelsets depending on what surface they rode, then I didn't take that as the same ride being in mixed conditions. Again, two bikes might be a good option for the OP. Though the OP stated they have at least two bikes, then possibly they have the wrong two bikes. However nowhere did I ever say that one bike wasn't an option.
I've several times recommend gravel or cx bikes to others. This didn't seem to be the post that needed to be centered on one bike to do everything. The OP didn't directly state a need for only one bike. And as I stated, I used to think I wanted two wheelsets to swap for different conditions as the OP said they wanted to do in their OP. However, I decided I wouldn't want to take the couple of minutes to swap wheels each time I wanted to ride.
In addition to just simply swapping wheels, range of gearing will be an issue. Too much change in the sizes of the cogs on the cassette, typically the low ratio cogs, then the chain will have to also be changed.
Maybe the OP wouldn't even need to swap wheels and just use one set of tires. If the gravel is packed gravel that some have, then the gearing likely won't be an issue. However here we don't have much packed gravel.
If we have a gravel road, it's washed gravel and you sink quite a bit. So if that's the case for the OP, then road and gravel or what ever the other surface the OP rides might require a significant gearing change.
So where one gravel bike might work well for many, for some it might not.
Still it seems you are offended that I used such harsh wording.... suck. I apologize that that offends you so much. Don't go all Sheldon Cooper on a phrase that was, to me, humorous more so than a accurate description of what I was attempting to say.
Since the OP said they were going to swap wheelsets depending on what surface they rode, then I didn't take that as the same ride being in mixed conditions. Again, two bikes might be a good option for the OP. Though the OP stated they have at least two bikes, then possibly they have the wrong two bikes. However nowhere did I ever say that one bike wasn't an option.
I've several times recommend gravel or cx bikes to others. This didn't seem to be the post that needed to be centered on one bike to do everything. The OP didn't directly state a need for only one bike. And as I stated, I used to think I wanted two wheelsets to swap for different conditions as the OP said they wanted to do in their OP. However, I decided I wouldn't want to take the couple of minutes to swap wheels each time I wanted to ride.
In addition to just simply swapping wheels, range of gearing will be an issue. Too much change in the sizes of the cogs on the cassette, typically the low ratio cogs, then the chain will have to also be changed.
Maybe the OP wouldn't even need to swap wheels and just use one set of tires. If the gravel is packed gravel that some have, then the gearing likely won't be an issue. However here we don't have much packed gravel.
If we have a gravel road, it's washed gravel and you sink quite a bit. So if that's the case for the OP, then road and gravel or what ever the other surface the OP rides might require a significant gearing change.
So where one gravel bike might work well for many, for some it might not.
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05-15-21, 06:38 PM
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Anyway the OP only has a budget of 1700 Euros, so it's going to be 1 new bike or sticking with the 2 very different bikes that don't really work for him any more. A bit of a no-brainer really. I think the OP's reasoning in the original post was perfectly fine.
Or maybe Iride01 can buy him a second bike optimised for whatever riding the first bike "sucks" at.
Or maybe Iride01 can buy him a second bike optimised for whatever riding the first bike "sucks" at.
05-15-21, 06:39 PM
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And if the rear derailleur can handle the chain wrap of the larger cassette, the chain length isn't likely to be an issue on the smaller cassette.
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05-15-21, 06:55 PM
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My Cannondale SuperX. One set of wheels with 32mm tubeless all weather tires and a send set with 35 knobby. Both have 11-30 cassette.
05-15-21, 07:10 PM
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Gravel bikes are just road bikes that don't suck on gravel.
Even with one wheelset and set of tires, one bike really can do everything from pavement to moderate gravel roads (at least most places I have lived) pretty well. And acceptable on some chunkier stuff. It is what I have been doing for several years now.
With two wheelsets, one bike can be pretty good at everything from slick tarmac to mild off-roading. That said, the two times I have run a second wheelset on a bike, they ended up growing into a second bike.
Even with one wheelset and set of tires, one bike really can do everything from pavement to moderate gravel roads (at least most places I have lived) pretty well. And acceptable on some chunkier stuff. It is what I have been doing for several years now.
With two wheelsets, one bike can be pretty good at everything from slick tarmac to mild off-roading. That said, the two times I have run a second wheelset on a bike, they ended up growing into a second bike.
05-15-21, 07:16 PM
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Gravel bikes are just road bikes that don't suck on gravel.
Even with one wheelset and set of tires, one bike really can do everything from pavement to moderate gravel roads (at least most places I have lived) pretty well. And acceptable on some chunkier stuff. It is what I have been doing for several years now.
With two wheelsets, one bike can be pretty good at everything from slick tarmac to mild off-roading. That said, the two times I have run a second wheelset on a bike, they ended up growing into a second bike.
Even with one wheelset and set of tires, one bike really can do everything from pavement to moderate gravel roads (at least most places I have lived) pretty well. And acceptable on some chunkier stuff. It is what I have been doing for several years now.
With two wheelsets, one bike can be pretty good at everything from slick tarmac to mild off-roading. That said, the two times I have run a second wheelset on a bike, they ended up growing into a second bike.
The geometry of a gavel bike is different from a road bike. And knobby tires are uncomfortable on tarmac while road tires are too slippery for offroad.
Sure you can make it work, but then there are many people that ride cheap full suspension bikes and never touch any dirt.
05-15-21, 09:46 PM
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I disagree.
The geometry of a gavel bike is different from a road bike. And knobby tires are uncomfortable on tarmac while road tires are too slippery for offroad.
Sure you can make it work, but then there are many people that ride cheap full suspension bikes and never touch any dirt.
The geometry of a gavel bike is different from a road bike. And knobby tires are uncomfortable on tarmac while road tires are too slippery for offroad.
Sure you can make it work, but then there are many people that ride cheap full suspension bikes and never touch any dirt.
I also said that you can use one wheelset for pavement and gravel/dirt roads. A large volume slick like a RH Bon Jon Pass 35 or Barlow Pass 38 rolls brilliantly on pavement and is excellent on gravel.
A knobby tread offers almost no benefit on most gravel roads (at least any that I have ridden on). It is really only when you get into mud that the tread does much of anything.
And the geo of some gravel bikes is very similar to many endurance road bikes. Heck, there are bikes marketed as endurance road that take 38 or even bigger. They could well be called gravel bikes.
Point is, whether you call them Gravel Bikes or Road Bikes with bike tires, with a set of high performance, high volume slicks, they are very good at both pavement and gravel/dirt roads. I know, as I have been riding a few of them over the past 6 years. Sold my skinny tired road bike as I have no use for it now.
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05-16-21, 01:10 AM
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Some are different, but many gravel bikes have geometries very similar to road bikes.
There's no reason you have to run knobby tires on a gravel bike. Slicks work well both on and off the tarmac.
And knobby tires are uncomfortable on tarmac while road tires are too slippery for offroad.
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05-16-21, 06:51 AM
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Not different enough to matter. See the two bikes I linked above. And here's two more...Geometry is close enough that a person would never tell the difference. Only that one of these bikes fits wider tires.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/di...ext=96220-7044
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ta...ext=90621-7044
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/di...ext=96220-7044
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ta...ext=90621-7044
Last edited by prj71; 05-16-21 at 06:57 AM.
05-16-21, 03:28 PM
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I"m in agreement with many of the above comments: you will be great with either a gravel or an endurance bike, and two sets of wheels. If you are not on single-track or big-chunk gravel get the endurance, if you want to do some more chunky and/or single track get a gravel bike.
Here is my own solution: my 2020 Roubaix with the gravel wheels in front, road wheels on the bike. 30c tires (30.1mm mounted on 21mmID rims) for the road, 35c tires (37mm mounted on 25mm ID rims) for the gravel. The gravel around here is all pretty tame, 98% of the time I'm happy I am not on bigger tires.
Here is my own solution: my 2020 Roubaix with the gravel wheels in front, road wheels on the bike. 30c tires (30.1mm mounted on 21mmID rims) for the road, 35c tires (37mm mounted on 25mm ID rims) for the gravel. The gravel around here is all pretty tame, 98% of the time I'm happy I am not on bigger tires.
05-16-21, 08:05 PM
#64
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I"m in agreement with many of the above comments: you will be great with either a gravel or an endurance bike, and two sets of wheels. If you are not on single-track or big-chunk gravel get the endurance, if you want to do some more chunky and/or single track get a gravel bike.
Here is my own solution: my 2020 Roubaix with the gravel wheels in front, road wheels on the bike. 30c tires (30.1mm mounted on 21mmID rims) for the road, 35c tires (37mm mounted on 25mm ID rims) for the gravel. The gravel around here is all pretty tame, 98% of the time I'm happy I am not on bigger tires.
Here is my own solution: my 2020 Roubaix with the gravel wheels in front, road wheels on the bike. 30c tires (30.1mm mounted on 21mmID rims) for the road, 35c tires (37mm mounted on 25mm ID rims) for the gravel. The gravel around here is all pretty tame, 98% of the time I'm happy I am not on bigger tires.
05-16-21, 08:27 PM
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On my bike they have 3.5-4mm clearance on my 25mm ID rims. The pre-2020 Roubaix models had a somewhat narrower clearance so maybe that is why your wife's bike has such a close fit. I originally was using the stock 20mm ID rims and these tires had 5+mm clearance there.
I could also fit other 35c tires such as the Gravelking SS or Vittoria Terreno Dry on the 20mm rimes, but those two tires had only 2mm clearance on the 25mmID rims which is a bit too close for me.
In general this is a bit of a downside of the Roubaix as a gravel bike, the clearance is tight. But I put time into it and found a combination that works. I also put helicopter tape on all the close spots as insurance for frame protection.
I could also fit other 35c tires such as the Gravelking SS or Vittoria Terreno Dry on the 20mm rimes, but those two tires had only 2mm clearance on the 25mmID rims which is a bit too close for me.
In general this is a bit of a downside of the Roubaix as a gravel bike, the clearance is tight. But I put time into it and found a combination that works. I also put helicopter tape on all the close spots as insurance for frame protection.
05-16-21, 08:46 PM
#66
Pizzaiolo Americano
On my bike they have 3.5-4mm clearance on my 25mm ID rims. The pre-2020 Roubaix models had a somewhat narrower clearance so maybe that is why your wife's bike has such a close fit. I originally was using the stock 20mm ID rims and these tires had 5+mm clearance there.
I could also fit other 35c tires such as the Gravelking SS or Vittoria Terreno Dry on the 20mm rimes, but those two tires had only 2mm clearance on the 25mmID rims which is a bit too close for me.
In general this is a bit of a downside of the Roubaix as a gravel bike, the clearance is tight. But I put time into it and found a combination that works. I also put helicopter tape on all the close spots as insurance for frame protection.
I could also fit other 35c tires such as the Gravelking SS or Vittoria Terreno Dry on the 20mm rimes, but those two tires had only 2mm clearance on the 25mmID rims which is a bit too close for me.
In general this is a bit of a downside of the Roubaix as a gravel bike, the clearance is tight. But I put time into it and found a combination that works. I also put helicopter tape on all the close spots as insurance for frame protection.
05-17-21, 12:14 AM
#67
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My first bike was a gravel bike. I went with a Specialized Diverge. I currently run Roval cl50 wheels with GP5000 tires tubeless. I have a 2nd wheelset with the original tires that came with the bike for gravel that I never use lol. I bought it because my friend had a mountain bike and I thought we might do some light off road stuff. Maybe some urban riding through neighborhoods. Mostly just ride it for exercise with the carbon wheel setup. Over the year and a half that I have been riding the Diverge I have definitely gotten stronger. The Diverge is pretty fast for a gravel bike with my wheel setup.
I just pulled the trigger and got my 2nd bike lol. I purchased a new 2022 Specialized Tarmac with the Sram Rival eTap AXS. Not sure if i'll keep both bikes. I just think the thought of having a proper road bike is more fun for me personally. I can put my Roval CL50 wheels on there. I won't feel silly upgrading the Tarmac with lighter more aero parts over time. Im not getting any younger(44 years old) and want to ride fast while I still can. Who knows I may not even like it. I'll definitely keep my Diverge until I try it out for a bit.
I just pulled the trigger and got my 2nd bike lol. I purchased a new 2022 Specialized Tarmac with the Sram Rival eTap AXS. Not sure if i'll keep both bikes. I just think the thought of having a proper road bike is more fun for me personally. I can put my Roval CL50 wheels on there. I won't feel silly upgrading the Tarmac with lighter more aero parts over time. Im not getting any younger(44 years old) and want to ride fast while I still can. Who knows I may not even like it. I'll definitely keep my Diverge until I try it out for a bit.
05-17-21, 02:58 AM
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As a former owner of a Diverge (used for the road with road tires) I would recommend a CX bike. My gravel bike was the most sluggish, slow handling road bike I ever had. They're designed for stability on gravel. Great bikes if you actually ride on gravel.
My CX bike is probably the most fun road bike I've ever had. I just like the feel of it better. Quick handling and responsive, I feel like bunny hopping over everything. I sold the Diverge after 3 months and found an older Raleigh on FB for $300.
My CX bike is probably the most fun road bike I've ever had. I just like the feel of it better. Quick handling and responsive, I feel like bunny hopping over everything. I sold the Diverge after 3 months and found an older Raleigh on FB for $300.
05-17-21, 06:55 AM
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I still don't get what is going on with the Terra Speeds on her Roubaix though.. here is a picture of the Terra Speed 35c on the stock 20mm rims on my Roubaix, there is 5+mm clearance there (it is a 5 or 6mm Alan wrench, forget which one now).
05-17-21, 07:37 AM
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If you are usually on gravel that does sound like the way to go.
I still don't get what is going on with the Terra Speeds on her Roubaix though.. here is a picture of the Terra Speed 35c on the stock 20mm rims on my Roubaix, there is 5+mm clearance there (it is a 5 or 6mm Alan wrench, forget which one now).
I still don't get what is going on with the Terra Speeds on her Roubaix though.. here is a picture of the Terra Speed 35c on the stock 20mm rims on my Roubaix, there is 5+mm clearance there (it is a 5 or 6mm Alan wrench, forget which one now).
Nice bike by the way. Roubaix with 35mm Terra Speed tires sounds like an awesome ride.
05-17-21, 10:52 AM
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How are you liking the Terra Speed tires? I just received a set of 700 x 40c over the Weekend for my 2021 Domane. Haven't had the chance to try them on the bike yet.
05-17-21, 01:00 PM
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I absolutely love the Terra Speeds. They have enough nubs that they don't completely wipe out in the mud, the nubs can help a bit sometimes in gravel, and for road riding they are faster than most gravel tires. On top of that they mount tubeless like a breeze. The only downside is supposed fast wearing, but I put about 90% of my miles on my road wheels so it should not be a big issue for me.
05-17-21, 01:24 PM
#73
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One bike with two sets of wheels can work very well. I used to be involved with jr bike racing and we would always encourage the kids to get a good cyclocross racing bike first with a second set of nice road wheels and tires for road/crit racing. I still commute on an old cyclocross racing bike.
05-17-21, 02:32 PM
#74
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Hi
My current bike setup is: MTB 29" and Giant Propel aero roadbike.
With much less time for training and riding in general my avg speeds on a flat course are beginning to start with 2, I can't clock >30km/h speeds and let's be honest there are no aero benefits with my frame with such low speeds and the bike frame is uncomfy. sporty and the max tyre I can fit is 25 and it's still kinda rubbing on the braking wire during braking.
The MTB is a heavy 15kg XL 23" frame tank and I feel it's kinda useless because I don't really ride in very rough terrain, mostly forrests paths (nothing too difficult or "jumpy") and gravel roads on which it lacks agility and is pain to start rolling.
So my thought was to sell both bikes and go either for a gravel bike and buy road wheels/tyres for it or road bike and buy gravel tyres for it. My goal would be to still be able to maintain the pace on the road as much as possible and be able to follow ~30-35kmh/h avg speed group rides as a wheelsucker
PLUS to have more fun and speed on the unpaved roads and forrests
Does it makes sense at all? If so, Would a gravel bike look silly with 28c tyres? How hard would it be to buy a wheelset that could be quickly swapped for the stock gravel wheels? Or maybe it would make more sense to buy an endurance frame road bike that fits a 32c (or more?) tyre?
Thanks for hints
Simon
My current bike setup is: MTB 29" and Giant Propel aero roadbike.
With much less time for training and riding in general my avg speeds on a flat course are beginning to start with 2, I can't clock >30km/h speeds and let's be honest there are no aero benefits with my frame with such low speeds and the bike frame is uncomfy. sporty and the max tyre I can fit is 25 and it's still kinda rubbing on the braking wire during braking.
The MTB is a heavy 15kg XL 23" frame tank and I feel it's kinda useless because I don't really ride in very rough terrain, mostly forrests paths (nothing too difficult or "jumpy") and gravel roads on which it lacks agility and is pain to start rolling.
So my thought was to sell both bikes and go either for a gravel bike and buy road wheels/tyres for it or road bike and buy gravel tyres for it. My goal would be to still be able to maintain the pace on the road as much as possible and be able to follow ~30-35kmh/h avg speed group rides as a wheelsucker
PLUS to have more fun and speed on the unpaved roads and forrestsDoes it makes sense at all? If so, Would a gravel bike look silly with 28c tyres? How hard would it be to buy a wheelset that could be quickly swapped for the stock gravel wheels? Or maybe it would make more sense to buy an endurance frame road bike that fits a 32c (or more?) tyre?
Thanks for hints
Simon
05-18-21, 12:45 AM
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Yea the plan was to sell both bikes, it may turn out that the 29er will stay if I don't get a satisfactory price, I mean it's not worth it to sell all-Deore bike for like 200 euros just because it's a bit old.
I made a list of all the bikes that I found locally (well, for Canyon not really locally) in my price range. For some I'd need to wait, because apparently there's a shortage of bicycle parts because of Covid.
Bike Type Frame material Groupset Brakes Max tyre width Weight (kg) Price
I apologize how appaling this looks like, I don't have more than 10 posts so I can't paste an image of a table...
Not sure about the minimal group set I should aim for? Maybe you'll laugh but in general I'm very sceptical about going really high with the groupset, I was on an Merida event once, could ride a 6000 euro bike for a while on Ultegra and couldn't learn a different between Tiagra Scott Speedster I had back then. I know that mechanical disc brakes don't get much love, not sure why. I think I would like pad brakes a bit more since I find them the easiest and quickest to release from, will discs be an issue in terms of setting up a separate wheelset for gravel/road (depending which I'll just as base)?
Finally, I'm not sure 32 tyres are enough for gravel? There was a survey somewhere, not sure if this forum or somewhere else, where people voted 32 as enough for light gravel.
Looks aside (damn you Trek with the Mulsanne Blue!), which one would you guys take? On paper I think the Canyon Endurance 7 and Kellys URC look good, just not sure tho if Kellys frame is endurance type. I wasn't able to find many pure gravel bikes with the looks I liked as you can see.
Oh, and it wouldn't be fair not to mention Decathlon's Gravel TRIBAN RC 520 on 105, max 35 tyre, 10,4kg. The best value for money by far, not sure I love the looks of it (can't verify "live" because they're unavailable here)
I made a list of all the bikes that I found locally (well, for Canyon not really locally) in my price range. For some I'd need to wait, because apparently there's a shortage of bicycle parts because of Covid.
Bike Type Frame material Groupset Brakes Max tyre width Weight (kg) Price
- Giant Contend AR 1 2021 Road endurance AL 105 Disc Hydraulic 38 9,5 1650
- CUBE 480200 NUROAD RACE Gravel AL Mix of GRX800, 600 & 400 Disc mechanical 40 10,4 1650
- TREK DOMANE AL 4 2021 Road endurance AL Tiagra Disc Hydraulic 32, 35? 10,48 1650
- CANYON Endurace CF 7 Road endurance Carbon 105 Regular 33 8 1550
- CANYON Grail 6 Gravel AL GRX400 Disc Hydraulic? 40 9,5 1550
- KELLYS SOOT 50 2021 Gravel AL GRX400 Disc Hydraulic 40 10,84 1350
- Kellys URC 30 Road endurance? Carbon Tiagra Regular 32 No info 1350
- CANYON Endurace 7 Road endurance AL 105 Regular 33 8,5 1250
- Kellys ARC 50 Road endurance? AL 105 Disc mechanical 32 No info 1200
- CUBE 476300 ATTAIN RACE Road endurance AL Tiagra Disc mechanical ? 10,1 1100
- Kellys ARC 30 Road endurance? AL Sora Regular 32 No info 1050
- Giant Contend AR 4 2021 Road endurance AL Claris Disc mechanical 38 No info 1000
- TREK DOMANE AL 2 2021 Road endurance AL Claris Disc mechanical 32, 35? 10,74 950
I apologize how appaling this looks like, I don't have more than 10 posts so I can't paste an image of a table...
Not sure about the minimal group set I should aim for? Maybe you'll laugh but in general I'm very sceptical about going really high with the groupset, I was on an Merida event once, could ride a 6000 euro bike for a while on Ultegra and couldn't learn a different between Tiagra Scott Speedster I had back then. I know that mechanical disc brakes don't get much love, not sure why. I think I would like pad brakes a bit more since I find them the easiest and quickest to release from, will discs be an issue in terms of setting up a separate wheelset for gravel/road (depending which I'll just as base)?
Finally, I'm not sure 32 tyres are enough for gravel? There was a survey somewhere, not sure if this forum or somewhere else, where people voted 32 as enough for light gravel.
Looks aside (damn you Trek with the Mulsanne Blue!), which one would you guys take? On paper I think the Canyon Endurance 7 and Kellys URC look good, just not sure tho if Kellys frame is endurance type. I wasn't able to find many pure gravel bikes with the looks I liked as you can see.
Oh, and it wouldn't be fair not to mention Decathlon's Gravel TRIBAN RC 520 on 105, max 35 tyre, 10,4kg. The best value for money by far, not sure I love the looks of it (can't verify "live" because they're unavailable here)