Giant Doofus

This is a neat little video about one proposal for how to design intersections so that they are safer for cyclists: 99% Invisible ? If we had Dutch-style intersections, we?d ride our.... It involves physical barriers and clear signals that separate bike and automotive traffic.

noglider 

That is outstanding!

acidfast7

Still seems unsafe. Elevated rings are better.

noglider 

That's a highly expensive intersection. The intersection in the original post might not cost more than the type it would replace. If it's more, it's not much more. In Manhattan, when you travel north or south, there are 20 intersections per mile. Think about that.

alan s 

This could work at some intersections, but many streets in downtown DC have no car parking lane during rush hour and no bike lane at all. If you have wide roads with light traffic and bike lanes, perhaps.

lhbernhardt

This is a good concept, but unless there's a specific bicycle light phase, I see cyclist-to-cyclist conflict happening. This would most likely occur when your typical uneducated selfish rogue rider (the guys who run stop signs and ignore red lights) rolls up to such an intersection wanting to make a left turn. The light is red, so instead of waiting for a green (leading to another wait for red across the street), he makes a quick left turn against bicycle traffic, then makes a right turn (again against bike traffic) when the light turns green for his original direction. He then completes the left turn kitty-corner to where he started and he is legal again.

I would also disagree with the start of the video, where it's assumed that bikes mixing with traffic is "unacceptable." Otherwise, it's a good start & worth considering.

Luis

EnsitMike

It's nice but not realistic. This example turns a 7 lane massive roadway that is almost nonexistent and makes it into a 2 lane road with a turning lane center divider.

jputnam

Awful. No wonder the Dutch consider these a third-rate, last choice facility.

Interesting Dutch blog wondering why Americans are suddenly obsessed by an obsolete, hazardous design that slows down cyclists.

A view from the cycle path: The myth of the "standard Dutch junction"

acidfast7

I agree. That solution in the video looks like a mess.

acidfast7

Close one N/S and one E/W street to all motorised traffic and divide it into cycles/peds only.

Or just make it elevated.

The junction in the OP doesn't solve any problems.

If one considers cycling infrastructure to expensive, nothing will change.

Giant Doofus

Thanks. This was very helpful. I don't see this source as offering a wholesale rejection of the intersection design in the video, but it does point out that it is just one of many designs that the Dutch employ and that a lot has to go right for it to work. This was especially useful:

"The devil is very often in the details of implementation. If dimensions are adequate, traffic light timings are adequate, if cyclists have separate traffic lights and motorists can be prevented from making right turns on red (which I know many US motorists expect to be able to do) then I think the design will work well. However, that's quite a list of details. Quite a list of things which could be got wrong if the junction can't be built to the standard that it needs to be built to."

tcs

I'm certainly not anti-infrastructure and IMO there's some interesting stuff here. That said...

"If we had Dutch style intersections, we'd ride our bikes everywhere, too."

Yeah, it has nothing to do with history or demographics or population density or economics or tax policy or geopolitics or energy geography or social character - it's all about the intersections. To be fair, I believe this tag has been added to the originator's work by reposters.

"Even at high volumes, bicyclists are good at negociating shared space and will have no problems staying out of each other's way."

Yes, that's certainly been my experience on American MUPs.

spare_wheel

when i want to make a left turn in downtown portland i simply take the lane and make a left turn. thanks to ~16 mph maximum speeds due to light timing doing so is safe.

these over-engineered and expensive "protective" facilities depend on the assumption that the vehicle lane will always be unsafe because society will always give hominid-driven heavy machinery priority in densely populated urban areas. bollocks!

the best solution is always to limit, calm, slow-down and tax the bejeesus out of motorists. ultimately, protective facilities are just car head band aids. you might scoff at my comments but changing attitudes about transport, urban livability and climate change suggest that the golden age of the motorized couch is coming to a close.

puckett129

Actually, in the blog post you reference the author specifically cites THIS VIDEO as an example of a well done intersection. They go on to say, "While watching the video, I kept expecting the author to trip up at some point or another, but he does seem to have almost everything covered. Overall, I'm impressed."

It may not be the best option, but it improves upon some of the major pitfalls cited with the old protected intersection design.

FBinNY 

Add another voice to the not workable if either auto or bicycle traffic is at all heavy.

Discounting the question of curbside doorings, we have poor sightlines, and confusion about right of way at the corners. Bicyclists will assume that they have the right of way over turning cars, but will be hidden behind parked cars approaching the corner, and squarely in the blind spot of a car that's partly turned. Even the most diligent driver won't be able to know when it's safe to turn, and so it might break down to only one turning car per light cycle.

PatrickGSR94

I'm personally just not big on protected bike lanes at all, unless I'm going to be riding super slow with my wife, kid, or what have you. I much prefer taking the traffic lane and making a direct left turn when I need to.

Making those roundabout left turns is NOT a good way to do it IMHO as it pretty much relegates you to pedestrian status. I much prefer David Hembrow's description of the simultaneous green for cyclists where you can go directly diagonal across the intersection to make a left turn. If there are going to be protected cycle paths, then the simultaneous green allowing for diagonal movement is the only way I would use such a path. Otherwise I will prefer to be in the normal traffic lane.

JBC353

My brother lives and works in Amsterdam and of course cycles where he needs to go. He is a senior architect for that city and is involved with their infrastructure planning and implementation on a regular basis. The constituency they must answer to is very different than what we are here on this forum. It is what makes that continuously evolving system so successful in moving so many people safely and efficiently about on bicycles.

He has done some consulting with a PNW city on their infrastructure and found some real enthusiasm and commitment among the planners despite the strong headwinds to the process. We agree that some Dutch level gas prices would help things along.

I think it would be really difficult, if not impossible to implement here in the States given our very different social, economic and political climate. Still, it's good to see the interest and actual occasional bit of progress. Hembrow's stuff is always interesting and informative.