am0n

Currently I only ride on the road. I have a used 2011 Specialized Secteur that I've ridden for a few years now. I've gotten to the point where I'd like to look into a new bike, but I also want to be able to open up what I do with said bike a little.

I have a 50/34 on the front and an 11-28 on the rear. That's the biggest it is rated to unless I swap to a new RD (105-5701 can handle up to a 32t). I live in NE, so typical rides for me are around 50 ft/mile, but north a bit and I can easily hit 75-100 ft/mile. On normal rides my gearing is fine, but on the other stuff I am grinding in my 34/28, so some lower gearing would be appreciated.

I have 25 mm tires right now, and I can probably get 28s on there, but I'd be deflating the tire every time I need to remove the wheel (even released, the rim brakes are tight even with a 25 mm tire). I'd like to ride on 28 for my road riding.

While I imagine road will be the bread and butter of what I do, I also want to dabble in some (light) gravel (dirt roads, crushed stone, mostly well kept trails, etc.) and some (light) bikepacking (not full on camping, but maybe a small tent to sleep in at night and stopping for meals, or just riding between hotels/BnBs) with the ability to do a little off road on those trips.

I imagine what I am looking for isn't too abnormal and I am hoping I can find a single bike that does it all "good enough." My dilemma from reading is that I sometimes get into the weeds and I notice that what you want on a bikepacking bike (low trail) seems opposite what you want on a gravel bike (large trail). Does this matter for the kind of riding I mentioned? Aim for something in the normal road range and call it a day? There is also talk of head tube angle as well and tires. It sounds like, for what I am intending, if I could put 35 mm tires I am probably good? If I could do 38 mm better, but likely don't need 45 mm + for what I am envisioning?

I had originally thought about just another endurance geometry, but most seem to be limited to around 32 mm tires. Domane seems to be an exception (maybe others as well). I also checked out some gravel bikes. Local dealer works with Parlee so I was eyeing up the Chebbaco, but that has a trail of 67 mm, which seemed large (but again, does it matter?). I also kind of liked the 48/31 and clutch on the gravel bikes, especially for an all arounder. I find I don't pedal hard on the downhills much any more, so I rarely if ever am in my 50/11, so I don't think I am losing much going to a 48/11 vs. picking up access to the 31 on the low end.

Given my ramblings, any feedback or insight? I could, theoretically, get a purpose specific bike for each thing, yes, but that's more money and space than I have available. I'm okay if it's not a perfect bike for everything. Road will be my bread and butter, so emphasis there (and I am happy to get a second set of wheels for road vs. offroad/bikepacking), but with the flexibility to still enjoy the other riding without being at a complete disadvantage.

mstateglfr 

- There is no right or wrong tire size for gravel. Its whatever the user likes the most. Ive ridden in NE on the eastern side and my 40 as well as 43mm tires have been plenty- same as here in IA. At the same time, I would want something wider than 35mm if I were consistently riding mixed surface routes where pavement and gravel are about equal.

- You can get fast rolling quality wider gravel tires and not be slower on pavement compared to medium quality road tires. A 25mm Conti Gatorskin measures at 19.3watts of rolling resistance while a 38mm Panaracer Gravel King slick has 20.8watts of rolling resistance.
A 38mm Gravel King SS has 23watts, A 40mm Conti Terra Speed has 20.8 watts.
Point being, a 28mm Conti Gatorskin will have the same as or even more rolling resistance compared to a 38-40mm quality tire.

- As with there being no right or wrong tire size for gravel, there is no right or wrong trail number for gravel. My gravel bike is lower trail than most current popular offerings because I like how it handles for how I use it. I view it as a road bike for unpaved roads and so I like that it behaves similar to my road bikes.
Others want a gravel bike with a long and slack front end for even more stability at speed so they want higher trail, and thats cool.

- I dont bikepack as there just isnt wilderness around me that really necessitates such a style. Pannier bags and a rack work fine. But if I were out where you are with the sands up north and all the unincorporated/blm land in northern NE, SD, ND, WY, etc- bikepacking might be something I would consider. Even then though, I dont know if I would care a ton about the measurement of trail. Whether its 65mm or 80mm.. I dont think my enjoyment or capability would change much.

- Bike gearing changes as tires grow. A 50/34 mated to an 11-28 on 25mm tires gives you a high of 120.38 gear inches and a low of 32.01 gear inches. If you go to a 40mm tire, you need a 48t large ring paired with an 11t cog for 120.50 gear inches and you need a 34t small ring with a 30t cog for 31.23 gear inches.
Basically, 50-11 with a 25mm tire is the same as 48-11 with a 40mm tire. Hopefully that makes sense. It is, in part, why gravel gearing is wider ranging than road gearing. Bigger tire means easier gearing is needed to get the same effect.

- A gravel bike with relatively low trail can perform perfectly fine as a road bike if you toss 28mm or 32mm tires on. There is very little difference between some road oriented gravel bikes and endurance road bikes.

Rolla

Don't overthink it, and don't let ad copy convince you that you require some magic head angle or trail measurement to do the kind of riding you're describing. You just want a stable, durable, and comfortable bike that can handle wider tires. I'd recommend looking at something like a Kona Rove or Salsa Vaya.

am0n

Thanks for the response.

Do you feel dirt road/crushed stone/kept trails would still necessitate wider than 35 mm? Or are you thinking something with larger rocks/roots, etc.?

For my road wheels, I'd use something much faster than the gatorskins, so I'm not too worried about rolling resistance of the tire. Yes, it's important, but when I know I am just doing road rides (which will be the majority), I'd have a second set of wheels with narrower/faster tires. I guess the exception to that is when bikepacking where I might care the the tire I am using is still okay on the road. Maybe that's the point you were getting at?

That's interesting about the gearing. So even though I'd have a 31/34 with the GRX, it's actually not much of a lower gear than my current 34/28 when you take into account different tire sizes.

What do you consider "relatively low" trail? The Chebbaco has a trail of 67 mm with 40 mm tires and I think around 64 mm with 28 mm tires. That 64 mm, though, seems on the high end for a road bike which is typically 55-60 mm. My current has a trail around 57 mm (but it's endurance, so a good sized wheelbase), but I don't mind how it handles (only experience, but I am satisfied). Would that 64 mm be a noticeable difference? I guess I am also asking because when bikepacking I've read mention of wanting a much lower trail to offset any front end weight (i.e. handlebar bag).

am0n

Thanks!

ksryder

New bikes are fun and worst case scenario is you have a bike that is capable of riding off-pavement but is still perfectly capable on the road.

I just bought a bike actually marketed as a gravel bike to replace the CX-bike I've been riding for years. I wanted wider tires and disc brakes. I paid zero attention to head tube angle/trail/etc., but I did assume that it would be more stable and planted for all-day riding and fast descents on loose gravel than the CX bike, which always felt like it was going to slide out from under me when I got going fast on loose descents. I was right, this bike is a lot better in those situations.

I'm not that picky though, I quickly get accustomed to whatever I'm riding. Vintage road bike with DT shifters? After about 10 miles it all comes back. Aero bars on my gravel bike for long days in the headwinds? Again, got used to it after a couple miles. MTB trigger shifters on my commuter frankenbike? Same.

mstateglfr 

For crushed packed stone trails and dirt, yeah a 35mm tire would probably be fine.
Your current bike has a bailout climbing ratio of 32.01 gear inches, based on 34/28 and a 25mm tire. A 35mm tire(since you mention that in this post) with 31/34 bailout ratio would be 24.79 gear inches. If that same ratio were on a 40mm tire, it would be 25.25 gear inches.
https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches
So regardless of what size tire you choose, the new bike will have a much easier climbing bailout option since the gearing is so much wider.

As for bikepacking- yes it is established that a low trail bike will handle a front load easier(more stable). French Rando bikes and pizza racks and porteur bags are all trendy and based on this geometry concept. However, if you look at bikepacking, the actual trend is for slack MTBs to have a some drybags strapped to the fork and a large roll to hang from the bars, which all is the opposite of the low trail concept. Point being- people make do. Loading up the front end of a high trail bike will create what is effectively fork flop, but its clear that most dont care enough to look for something different or design something different.

Steve B.

A good rule of thumb for gravel riding is put on the largest tire that'll fit, you can never go wrong with a bigger tire.

I purchased a 2nd set of beefier 32 spoke wheels for my C-Dale Topstone, I use the OEM 28 spoke wheels with 28mm road tires and a more road oriented cassette in 12-25 (I live on somehat flat Long Island). My beefier 32 spoke wheels have the 43mm gravel tires and a 11-34 cassette,. The crank is a 30/46 so I've got good hill gears. As it's a disc brake bike, the wheels swap in about a minute and now I've got a road bike and a gravel bike. Very cost effective and versatile.

Chilepines

There are a lot of different topics in one post here.
I ride my gravel bike in New England with 35 mm tires on gravel roads, unmaintained roads and single track trails. My next bike will have 40-42 mm tires but the 35s are sufficient.
I have a 46/30 crank with 11-36 cassette and use all of the gears. With any less low gear there are routes I would just not be able to ride.
My bike has a 70 degree head angle so more trail than about 90% of bikes out there. My next bike will be 69 degree and longer wheelbase to get even more downhill stability.

scubaman

Unless the bike is meant mainly for fast paceline rides or road racing, I always recommend getting a bike that can fit at least 38mm tires. For me, 38mm is kind of the minimum sensible for mixed surface riding (and also the minimum for setting up tubeless). Yes, one can ride dirt roads on 35 or 32 or even 28mm tires, and I've done all of that. But having now ridden 1000s of mixed surface miles on 42, 48 and 53mm tires, I only ride narrower when the alternative is not to ride at all. Anyway, if you get a bike that fits 45mm tires, you can ride it with 25s, but obviously not vice versa.

Outside of fast pacelines or racing, I'm also a big fan of 1x drivetrains. I only need a gear bigger than 38 or even 36 x 11 to pedal downhill, and I don't want to descend that fast anyway. Whereas on gravel, 36 x 42 comes in handy.