phughes

It was the statement, "I can't imagine riding long distance without clipless," as iff it would be some sort of hardship. A ridiculous statement and implication. And I agree, ride what you want, the way you want. What works for one may not work for another. We all have out preferences. I prefer to not be fastened to a bike. That is my preference, and I do not care if others do like to be fastened to a bike. That is their preference, and the clipless pedals that make that possible are very good.

Koyote

You posited a world with two possibilities -- right here:

You're completely ignoring toe clips and straps, as evidenced by this line, which I will quote again for emphasis:

Not a big deal, at least to me; but if you're going to throw the word "ridiculous" at me, I'll respond with your own words. You set up a false dichotomy which ignored the fact that riders have been fastening their feet to pedals for about 100 years.

phughes

How am I ignoring toe clips? I haven't even ignored clipless. I have simply stated that we were riding without clipless for years without issues. Yes some used toe clips, many did not. Unreal. I think you like to argue. I'll let you. My point is, and has always been, that you can ride long distances very comfortably with platform pedals, and many do. My brother used toe clips. I did not. None of my friends used toe clips. Other people I saw did. None of that matters. Ride what you want. You can however ride without clipless and be very happy, and ride long distance.

Koyote

Agreed! That's why I said that it's no big deal -- no fundamental argument. My point is that there is a reason why so many cyclists, for almost as long as there have been bikes, have been mechanically attaching their feet to pedals.

phughes

And clipless was invented in the 1800s.

Koyote

[QUOTE=phughes;22894242]And clipless was invented in the 1800s.[/QUOTE

Ha! And you claim that I like to argue!

I'm sure you know that clipless pedals weren't commonly used until much later...And now I'll let you have the last word.

Eric F 

I suspect you might have interpreted the comment as, "I can't imagine (anyone) riding long distance without clipless". Of course, this would rub you the wrong way because of your own contrary experience. However, as actually written, I read it as just a personal opinion about their own feelings on the topic, not a challenge that your way is wrong.

phughes

[QUOTE=Koyote;22894251]Yeah, I already stated that in the first post of mine that you quoted. I was simply agreeing with you regarding people mechanically attaching themselves to pedals for a long time, and mentioning an interesting fact regarding the invention of clipless.. So in agreeing with you, I wasn't arguing.

phughes

Nothing in this thread rubbed me the wrong way. I find it difficult to get emotional over someone's opinion regarding a bicycle. I did say that you could ride long distance using platform pedals without issues though. That is just stating a fact. No emotion necessary.

Racing Dan

The benefit of clipless is not going faster, its being attached to the bike. That, at the same time, is the drawback too, depending on application. Riding flats or clipless, the same route at the same speed require the same power for the same amount of time. There IS NO free lunch, even if the bike industry would like you to believe so.

Carbonfiberboy 

To all the above, I say, "Whatever." I've been on maybe 1000 group rides, distances ranging from 30 to 200 miles. I don't remember seeing even one rider using plain flats. Mostly clipless, but a few with clips and straps. I figure . . . maybe there's a reason for that. I rode flats as a kid, up to maybe 60 miles. Of course I knew nothing about cycling other than that I loved to ride. But the very first time, at 17, I ever pulled my straps tight, I knew I had entered a whole new world of cycling. I was a pretty strong kid though, used to climbing, skiing, running, all that stuff, as well as cycling. So I already had the legs. I think athletic folks, always looking for the hardest way to do everything, readily take to foot retention.

Broctoon

Her name rhymes with Ren, and she's from a certain southern Nevada city.

I think most people who try clipless pedals like them and quickly adapt, but there are certainly exceptions.

Eric F 

I was being vague on purpose

daihard 

Just purely curious, are there studies or researches that demonstrate that clipless pedals are in fact more efficient (e.g. generate more power) than platform pedals in a statistically significant way? I've watched a few YouTube videos where they make the comparison and conclude that the advantage of the clipless system is minimal if it does exist in terms of efficiency.

wolfchild

Why is it so hard for all the clipless fans out there to accept the fact that "some" people are just comfortable and have a preference for platform pedals and regular shoes ?. This whole argument against platform pedals being unsuitable for longer distances is just complete BS...I am not disputing or debating that clipless may have some slight performance benefits when racing or doing competitive type of riding, that's fine and I can accept that. I am just not interested in them that's all, like I said before I just prefer to be able to hop on my bike with whatever shoes I decide to wear that day and go for a ride without having to put on special type of shoes. Why can't people just accept that ?.

Eric F 

Can you provide an example where someone said that platform pedals are unsuitable for longer distances? Expressing a personal preference for either clipless or platform does not automatically mean that they are unaccepting of other people using something different. In this thread, people have made that quite clear.

daihard 

I totally agree clipless vs flat is a personal preference. OTOH, some people have said clipless pedals are more efficient, as if it is an establifhed fact. That's why I asked in my previous post whether there are any studies or researches that back that up. All the ones I've seen so far seem to agree that the difference is minimal if it does exist.

Eric F 

Have you read thought the thread? A lot of this stuff has been discussed above.

The differences in raw power input-output are probably minimal (I haven't done a lot of personal research on this specifically). The advantage is that being mechanically attached to the pedal allows the rider to put power into the pedal in a greater range around the pedal circle, thus the ability to share the load among more muscle groups, or supplement with opposing forces (push and pull at the same time, for example) in certain conditions. That said, just because a rider can apply power almost all the way around the pedal circle doesn't mean they do it very well. Clipless pedals are typically used with a very stiff (maybe fully rigid) soled shoe that minimizes power loss thought flexing of the sole, and transferring more of that power to the pedal. However, there is nothing preventing a rider from using a stiff shoe on a flat pedal. There are some people who simply prefer to be mechanically connected with their bike, and find that it helps with control, especially when riding in rough conditions like a MTB or gravel bike might encounter, or in all-out efforts on the road.

As we have seen from examples in this thread, there are some riders who prefer not to be clipped in, who prefer to be able to move their feet around, and/or don't want to wear special shoes, especially ones that are difficult to walk in when off the bike.

There is no one right answer for all riders and all types of riding. What matters to me might not matter at all to you.

daihard 

I've read every single post in this thread. I totally understand that many riders, including myself, like the feet physically attached to the pedals as it gives you more safety and control. I'm just interested in knowing whether there's any data that shows the cliipless setup _is_ more efficient in deliverying performance than flat pedals in a signiicant way, which seems to be what some posters argue, because what I've found so far does not. As I said above, it's just purely out of curiosity.

This comparison makes sense to me, if you're interested.

Eric F 

I've seen that video. It seems to confirm an advantage for clipless. However, their testing protocol has so many variables that it's hardly irrefutable proof. In my estimation, if a rider's pedaling mechanics don't take any advantage of the areas in the circle where being attached makes a difference, then they won't see a difference. For me - other than bike control factors - the difference is in being able to shift where the focus of my effort is around the circle to give other muscles a rest for a little while. There was a time when I was better at pedaling (most of) a circle than I am now.

daihard 

The takeaway for me is that the difference that exists is minimal, but in any case, I agree this is not a very scientific study. What I should have quoted first is this one, which actually was the first such comparison video I've seen. I was quite surpised on watching it myself, One particularly interesting finding is how being told to pull the pedal up actually decreased efficiency.

mackgoo

Easier.

rsbob 

. Stick with a product that works well for you.

rsbob 

Dylan Johnson helped me find the error in my previous post re: efficiency.

Kapusta

Some people are confusing efficiency with power. They are not the same thing.