SB1501

Feeling really discontent about driving currently. I'm someone that has enjoyed owning a car, maintaining it and keeping it in great shape. I've even happily paid over the cheapest prices for quality parts, been OTT about servicing and taken a lot of great pride in the couple of cars I've owned in the last decade.

In recent years though, it's been a repetitive cycle of things... all combing to make me think "screw this, I want out".

Warranty work needed... disputes to get it taken on, and done, then done to a poor standard, then a long time without the car I put so much time and effort in to. I've ended up selling / trading them as even on the second attempts, most of the local car trade can't get it right.

Parking. A constant hassle. At my street, most households have multiple cars now, a few elderly folks have moved out or passed on (RIP) who didn't have cars, homes re-filled with new tenants who have a car, maybe two. It's a constant battle now. At my partners house, same thing, her neighbours kid moved back in, with his car, takes the spot outside (nobody has claims to them) and her new downstairs neighbour now also has a car. Constant luck needed to get a spot. Even at work!! They downsized the office floor space lease (post covid, new working from home) and as such, 90 car spaces now 30, and introduced a booking system, which inevitably leaves most people out of luck. when challenged, they said "we want people to cycle to work etc" , essentially using a good initiative, as an excuse for the predicament they've put a lot of us in. To top it off, a local shopping centre where I decided to park my car (at cost) for peace of mind over scratches or theft etc, has now increased prices going from £1 up to an hour / £2.50 up to 3 hours which covered me, up to £2.50 for up to an hour, and £4 for up to 3... Which just makes that unsustainable financially.

Then, around Easter, after spending an entire day (a nice day) polishing it, waxing it, really getting it in beautiful shape on a day off... Took it up to a resort town on my last day off work for a while only for an arrogant motorcyclist to cut in, stop, meaning I had to move around slowly. He then drove right into the back of me (crash for cash or sheer stupidity?!). Insurance agreed that it wasn't my fault (grateful for my front and rear dash cams). Now my car is in getting repairs, who knows how many weeks? They gave me a god awful courtesy car. Not enjoyable at all, and severely thirsty on gasoline. No estimated return date for my car, weeks potentially.

It seems to be one thing after another. There is no peace of mind. Enjoyment of car ownership and investment seems to be very, VERY short lived. So much to the point where I think, I'd rather cut my losses. Pay the £5,700 of negative equity off with a loan and take my company up for its offer of a £3,000 limit cycle to work scheme.

I've been on here many times over the years, giving it some serious thought and getting some stellar advice but never doing it. Clothing can apparently solve the weather issue. Cycle lights with car headlight lumens can hopefully solve visibility, even on a dark road. Hiring a car should cover a weekend or two per month of 'road trips' with my girlfriend. Surely I'd come out financially better off. No more petrol. No more insurance. No more repairs. No more servicing.

I live around 7 miles from work / 5 from the city. Right now, in winter at least, cycling in and out seems to be a no go. I could spend more time at my girlfriend's home in the city making cycle commuting to work in winter very easy and 20 mins max. A commitment I should probably already be making anyway... There are showers at work too. Unfortunately WFH isn't an option due to a recent change meaning I must be in for security purposes. I'm 28 and in the next two years should be moving out into the city anyway. Perhaps no £20,000 car loan / monthly payments on my credit record would free up so much more cash to get a nicer home in the city further cementing car free living into my life as a practical lifestyle.

I'm (as ever) seriously considering this. I don't hate cars, I hate the reality of owning one.

Any of you been where I am? Any advice or words of wisdom? Perhaps I'm taking the circumstances too personally / emotionally..

I-Like-To-Bike

This.
Advice: relax.

SB1501

Thank you. I have since had my car back, repaired. Enjoyed the weekend going out to stay at a remote AirBnB with it. Just in from washing it now, bank holiday here in the UK.

Still, when I think of the few-hundred a month I'm paying for it, I think I could advance my life a little further if that few hundred went towards a house or property. As it stands, it'll be tight to manage both per month whilst having money to live (well).

50PlusCycling

I work from home, and most of what I need is within 10 minutes walk from where I live. If you think driving and parking is tough where you are, try living here in central Tokyo. But I do have a car, a nice BMW 750i, which spends most of its time nestled comfortably in the garage. I got a nice car because I hate driving in Tokyo. On those occasions I get stuck in traffic, at least I am comfortably stuck. Maintenance and repairs are few and far between, I drive so little that a tank of gas can last 6 or more months. I continue to own a car because it remains a ticket to freedom, once you get out of the cities, Japan is a beautiful place to see by car. I also have kids in school, and I find it easier to go to school events, go camping, and take them other places by car.

There are different options when it comes to determining what you can afford. You can adjust your spending to live within your means, or you can increase your means so as to be able to afford more. The latter option is not as hard as many people like to think.

axelwik

It's reported to cost a fortune to buy, keep, and maintain a car in Tokyo. I wonder what your per kilometer cost is? How much do you use public transportation vs the car? Is it worth it?

Leisesturm

You probably could, but, I don't know ... you've been circling around this for so long. Aren't you ready to accept that you can't do it? I love my car free life. Yurp, we do stuff you can't even consider, like HVAC (heating/cooling) without 5 years of interest payments. Both you and I know the other poster is wrong: you cannot just dial up the monthly income you want. I'll take them seriously when they repatriate themselves and continue in the manner to which. This forum has always been a bit of a joke. I'm about the only real car free person regularly posting.

I-Like-To-Bike

Does a self-anointed "Real Car Free Person" earn a special merit badge or get a gold star sticker applied to his forehead?

JoeyBike

I never did in 30 years of not OWNING a car. I rented plenty of them, took taxi cabs and other motorized means of getting around fairly often. A self-imposed "user tax" if you will. If I didn't feel like spending the money on auto rentals I just opted out and biked or walked for a while. I enjoyed the option.

The Moon and even now Mars isn't totally "car-free" these days so not sure what the true definition of CF would be anymore.

If I lived right next door to a rental car company and had the money to rent one but never did, am I still "car-free"? If a tree falls in the forest....

JoeyBike

You really have to "insert yourself" into a situation that allows you to ditch the car. Close proximity to all of your services and retail needs, medical care, friends (if you have those), and most of all a safety net for if/when you get sick i.e., taxi services. If your dream was to own a sheep farm in the country your chances of being car-free get close to zero. Live in a nice city center and your odds get much better of pulling off that lifestyle.

Cheers!

I-Like-To-Bike

The Real definition of "car-free" is whatever a BF brand Real Car Free Person™ says it is.

JoeyBike

It might be fun to start a thread asking all five of us what our own personal definition of car-free is.

Leisesturm

Triggered much? To post such absolute rubbish to try and what I don't know, you have to feel pretty indicted by what I said. Why? I'm car free. You're not. It is what it is ...

Leisesturm

Yes, you would be car free if you don't use rental cars. 'Car lite', if you do occasionally. Is that so hard? Why the silliness? The definitions are not up to you or me. The definitions of most things are not subject to an individuals whim.

JoeyBike

If I get injured and take a $5,000 ambulance ride. Still car free?

SB1501

Well the last few weeks, I have truly been split between keeping the car and embracing the idea of owning one to the fullest - and then, absolutely feeling like crap over my mentality and how much of a toll it takes on me. Parking, insurance hikes, fuel prices. It's not that I can't afford them or find parking etc, it's that I don't want to put up with this anymore. I don't feel it's worth it. Right now I've got the full set up to take advantage of car ownership, that being a car I'm happy with and a big investment in the form of a concept2 rowing machine to counteract the no-other-exercise aspect. However, I was a bit disappointed in the rowing machine as I thought because it engages so much muscle groups, it would help me feel more active and flexible outside of my 9-5 office job and driving pastime but it doesn't really. I'm sure it's a still a net positive, but it's not 'stretching me out' how I had hoped.

I'm considering buying a £200-£400 bike, 12 months 0% finance so it doesn't upset my savings or already tight cash flow so much. Parking my car up in the work multi-storey for 4 weeks, giving the key to family. And truly experiencing having no car on the street outside, having to ride it to work every morning, 5 days a week, and home. No comfortable, warm, cosy car on the wet (and cold) mornings. This last week I've been living at my partners house (dodging my parents home due to a Covid outbreak, successfully actually as everyone else there ended up getting it!). Because of that, the usual 7 mile commute and 1.5 mile dodgy road bit is non existent. It's all cycle path / shared paths and fairly level ground. It seems like a good trial to do for 4 weeks or so?

Is 4 weeks enough to know if I'll truly not regret ditching the car?

If I could sum it up in two main benefits: peace of mind/mental health, and financial freedom too

I worked out the costs:


I'd be taking about a £5,000 loss on my car due to finance interest... However.. in less than 12 months, I'd have paid off a loan to cover that. Leaving me with a big fat 0 of debt to my name. And sure, finance is temporary, but the car is already 7 years old, in another 4.5 years, it'll be an old enough car that at any point, it could quickly become time to go finance another.. right?

I-Like-To-Bike

What is the question that anybody but the OP can provide an answer?

JoeyBike

The root of the problem is that much of this world has been altered to the detriment of those who prefer not owning a motor vehicle. For most industrialized nations a car has become a necessity and we have all been groomed to accept this.

base2 

There is a phrase that comes to mind: Drive 'till you qualify.
What that means is that housing cost is inversely proportional to Personally Owned Vehicle cost.

If you have everything you need nearby you don't need a car. If you have nothing near by housing cost is going to be cheaper because that area sucks to live in. The money saved simply turns to transportation expense, which is a different and often more porous money bucket.

Give this a read and see if it tips the scales one way or the other for you.

Jameth

I sold my car and used the proceeds to buy a $600 city bike 10 years ago. I was in school and eating cheap garbage. One day, after having thought for days of ways to divert some of my income towards the food I wanted to eat, I discovered my radiator was leaking and needed to be replaced and that my car was going to be eating and not me.

Cars keep people poor. It's an intentional aspect forced upon people by psychopaths. They sponge up your money. They waste your time with nonsense. Parking, washing, fixing, worrying. They keep you uncomfortably immobilized; strapped to a seat soft enough to cradle your joints which ache from disuse.

Seven miles and an available shower? Do it. And be excited for a future where you're healthier and don't have an obnoxious machine breathing worry down your neck. I'm currently biking 40 miles round trip on a single-speed. The body adapts.

SB1501

It's that long term future thing that's so compelling. Even more than the money because 'if I enjoy driving and car ownership enough', then the money is justified. My particular opportunity cost dilemma is right now I can only afford a house or a car. Not both on my own. Sure, if my girlfriend had an equal income to mine (she's unemployed) then we could both manage to go half on a place, and I'm sure that societally, that's how it should be as most folks I went to university with who are buying some very nice houses have partners who work. She has a social housing place at the minute, and I could move in there and keep my car etc, but it still doesn't feel ideal. I have a house deposit saved already from the last five years of working since graduating. I still like the idea of buying a place, to own.

Parking... has become so hard where I am. My employer just downsized its office space and as such we went from 90 spaces to 30 spaces, which now need booked. The multi-storey is a horrible, overly tight compromised design barely fitting two of our compact European cars without concrete pillar obstruction. Before, especially since the pandemic, it was fine for the ones who did commute in to the office to double park or something. Now, we can't get a spot guaranteed and half of the time, the other users of the car park (apartment residents who should park on the higher levels) park double in some of our reservable spots. This is going to get worse when new companies occupy the former floors and as such, also use the car park. On my street in the last two years we've had new neighbours, sometimes with two cars and a third from kids learning to drive and getting a car - nobody is guaranteed a space as it's on the street. At my girlfriend's place too, new neighbours below and another neighbours kid started driving and has his girlfriend over (another car competing for the same space). And even a local shopping mall I used, going from £1 for up to an hour to £2... easily getting up to £4 for two and a half hours in town where it used to be no more than £2.50 a time, which I found good in terms of having safe, secure space where my car wouldn't get damaged or risk a ticket for being parked too long. Something as silly as parking has become such a mental battlefield, and me, putting as much effort into my car as I do, can't stand the thought of it being parked somewhere where some jealous neighbour who feels entitled to the spot decides to tamper with or damage it, or getting a £45 parking fine for parking on street. It's really bothering me.

Don't get me wrong, I have in the last decade enjoyed cars. Fixing them, washing them, maintaining them. At one stage in life, it was about freedom, exploring the country independently, a lot of great, nostalgic firsts have happened because of cars in my life. But lately I find it repetitive. I live in NI which is very, very small. The main attractions, towns, cities, things to do, I've done a few times over now. With different people, at times, on my own. I feel a little fatigued by it. Where once I'd love to go out and be in places, I now feel like I'd rather be planning and enjoying the likes of my own garden, or kitchen or lounge to spend my non-working time in. Something simple. I feel like the novelty and worthwhile aspects of car ownership are just fading. And yet, my much nicer car (on finance) seems to proportionately still cost as much to run as my old little Fiat did back in 2015-2019 despite making a not great, but still much better income

Steel Monkey

In the month of May I didn't even move the car. In April, I think I only drove to get a half tank of gas. I'm paying ever increasing insurance premiums for something I don't use, and despite being of the few who actually follow traffic laws and procedures. I really wish I could convince my partner that we don't need it. Sigh, Winter does suck for weather, but the economic winter sucks even more. Maybe one day, soon(?), she'll agree.

Jameth

It sounds like you fell into the all-too-common trap of buying the most expensive car you could afford. Do you have some idea of why you gave up on the Fiat?

All you can do is to keep cheerfully pointing out how absurd and unhelpful it is to continue to own it. Good luck, brother!

ScottCommutes

I didn't read the whole thread.

I don't own a car for my own needs, but my wife certainly has one.

I will warn you that biking is expensive for a lot of reasons. Prices are higher because they don't sell as many bike parts as car parts. Parts aren't as durable because they have to be small and lightweight. I would look at an older bike that you can learn to maintain yourself and still easily find parts for. I would highly recommend a second entire bike just for redundancy when you are waiting on parts or repairs. My first year without a car I probably spend $1000 US on bike stuff that I didn't expect - winter clothes, rain clothes, tires, winter tires, tubes, a repair stand, tools, lights, safety gear, repair work, parts, racks, etc. The calories to power biking have to be paid for. Crashing a bike can be more expensive than crashing a car if you account for the possibility of more lost time at work.

Biking does get cheaper once you get the hang of it. Many things only need to be purchased the first year. In addition to doing repairs myself, I've learned how to scour sales for discount gloves, discount tires, discount chains, etc.

I would suggest that you do it. Bikes today have never been better - LED lights, computerized route finding, lightweight frames, e-bikes - so many advances. You can also get most stuff delivered right to your door so you don't have to lug as much stuff home. There's also Uber and such nowadays.

The bike will also force you to save money by simplifying your life. You won't meet up with a girl and spend a bunch of money on dinner and drinks because the ride will be a bit too far. Instead, you'll stay home cleaning chains, adjusting brakes, and patching tubes.

One downside - if you have tons of free time and marketable skills, the bike will make it harder than the car to work more jobs and earn more money.

Leisesturm

Uh oh, o.p. now you've done it. ILTB is getting annoyed. I've seen him this way before. It can get ugly. Please hurry and make a decision, or take your ruminations to your safe space. This isn't it anymore. Just know that I'm pulling for you.

Leisesturm

O.p. this poster tends to overstate things. Crashing a car is always more expensive than crashing a bike unless you are severely injured in the bike crash. I haven't patched a tube in years. Not only do I have a girl that I met while carfree, we are now married, and own several (4) tandems between us, along with my Cargo Bike, Road Racer and Folding Bike. All these bikes were bought new. I have had used and vintage bikes in the distant and recent past, but not because they were cheap, or cheap to own. Purely because I liked them at the time. Uber and Lyft tend to take a big bite out of your car free savings. Use Mass Transit as the main go to, and back it up with the bike, or vice versa. Uber as a last resort. No mass transit where you live? You could move. I'm serious.