Can we make Bicycles Sustainable Again?
#51
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There is no turning back in bike design, especially with e-bikes now coming on the scene. People only talk about sustainability, they don't practice it, except some trivial aspects.
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#52
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Yes, his estimates seem low for a lifetime of a bicycle. Although from my own records of bicycles…40 of them…I average only about 2600 miles per bike with a high of 22,000 lifetime miles and a low of 57 miles. Four of those bikes were disposed of because they broke (3) or were wrecked due to a car accident (1). Most of the rest passed out of my hands so I have no idea how long they lasted.
But, over all, the article has a bit too much self-flagellation to be taken seriously.
But, over all, the article has a bit too much self-flagellation to be taken seriously.
This article reckons the average bicycle user only does about 1000 miles (1600km) a year, which means a bike with 15,000km on it is about 10 years old and since it's probably not been brilliantly maintained and is just used to get to work and back, will almost certainly be approaching the point where it's less hassle to scrap it and buy a new one, given the vast bulk of bicycles sold will have cost under about $500 new.
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#55
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That is odd to me, since in the developed world there is a downward trend for carbon use.
Why wouldn't all the carbon reduction laws be taken into account? Why wouldn't the already started downward trend be taken into account?
I know economies don't matter if the world is destroyed by warming/climate change, but population decline definitely creates some significant issues of its own, and those very real issues also seem to just not be discussed or even acknowledged in articles and comments on this subject.
I am not suggesting having kids is somehow good for the environment, to be clear.
It's just funny to see realities, projections, and carbon reduction laws largely ignored in what seems like an effort to hold a moral high ground over others.
Also, I am not suggesting the 2 posters I just quoted are expressing moral superiority. The comments simply happened to motivate me to post this as a perspective worth considering.
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Last edited by Koyote; 03-26-23 at 09:07 PM.
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#57
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We're a forum of cycling enthusiasts, so we almost certainly cover an order of magnitude of mileage than a person who uses a bicycle for transport only.
This article reckons the average bicycle user only does about 1000 miles (1600km) a year, which means a bike with 15,000km on it is about 10 years old and since it's probably not been brilliantly maintained and is just used to get to work and back, will almost certainly be approaching the point where it's less hassle to scrap it and buy a new one, given the vast bulk of bicycles sold will have cost under about $500 new.
This article reckons the average bicycle user only does about 1000 miles (1600km) a year, which means a bike with 15,000km on it is about 10 years old and since it's probably not been brilliantly maintained and is just used to get to work and back, will almost certainly be approaching the point where it's less hassle to scrap it and buy a new one, given the vast bulk of bicycles sold will have cost under about $500 new.
*Egg came first by several hundred million years.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#58
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The comments section is quite revealing. Someone points out to the author that maybe bicycles are not a major concern in the bigger picture and the author responds with:-
"For me, this article is not really about bicycles, it is about capitalism managing to destroy everything, even a sustainable icon like the bicycle. That is the important matter to attend instead of focusing on technological solutions for whatever you find more relevant than a bicycle."
So there you have it. A rant about capitalism, combined with a strong retro-grouch bias toward old steel bicycles.
"For me, this article is not really about bicycles, it is about capitalism managing to destroy everything, even a sustainable icon like the bicycle. That is the important matter to attend instead of focusing on technological solutions for whatever you find more relevant than a bicycle."
So there you have it. A rant about capitalism, combined with a strong retro-grouch bias toward old steel bicycles.
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#59
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Greta, Al Gore and the like are so right they are taking it to the bank. Meanwhile winter is winter, spring is spring, summer is summer and fall is fall, and it is all happening to this day.
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Ticks that used to die off and not survive far north are living thru winter and creating large surges of disease in uncommon locations.
I could honestly type out a hundred scenarios like these, but doubt there is value in that for the audience I am responding to.
Direct question- regardless of if it's naturally occurring or influenced by man, do you think there is a change in climate activity over the last 125 years, and especially over the last 40?
...or do you rake the position that nothing is different?[/size]
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#61
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The comments section is quite revealing. Someone points out to the author that maybe bicycles are not a major concern in the bigger picture and the author responds with:-
"For me, this article is not really about bicycles, it is about capitalism managing to destroy everything, even a sustainable icon like the bicycle. That is the important matter to attend instead of focusing on technological solutions for whatever you find more relevant than a bicycle."
So there you have it. A rant about capitalism, combined with a strong retro-grouch bias toward old steel bicycles.
"For me, this article is not really about bicycles, it is about capitalism managing to destroy everything, even a sustainable icon like the bicycle. That is the important matter to attend instead of focusing on technological solutions for whatever you find more relevant than a bicycle."
So there you have it. A rant about capitalism, combined with a strong retro-grouch bias toward old steel bicycles.
#62
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What I am always amused with is the vintage 70’s reto crowd is always complaining about big bike marketing scams enticing purchasers with the new and improved products and technologies is a example of capitalism run amok. The irony is the storied names they are wedded to are really a construct of nothing but marketing vapor. Somehow a Columbus tubed cast lugged bike assembled by a bunch of dudes whose names end with a vowel is somehow different from another even though they are virtually identical. During the 70’s North American bike boom they had to differentiate the various identical offerings much like the tobacco industry by assigning emotional attributes and vague differentiators. I fondly recall my 74 Masi GC with 1st generation Super Record and the sense of pride I had when I purchased it with my hard earned money. But it was ***** when compared to my most recent bike both in performance and build quality.
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#63
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Great point, been alone traveling for the past month and heading back to the real world tomorrow so that that last repetitive broken record rant for a while. Thanks for the reality check
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We only need to watch David Attenborough's climate change documentary to get the big picture and it isn't looking good. He's a guy who has literally lived through it and seen it all first hand with no political or commercial motive. It's all pretty sad really, but not that surprising.
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We've all been there. You can yell at the clouds (err, old men with their lugged steel bikes) all you want...But it'll only harden their resolve.
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I love ❤️ climate change talk.
You see , climate change debate has cured all of these, ,, just prove it's a normal phase earth goes through , and our conscience is clear as a new born 👶 baby 🤥
Last edited by rossiny; 03-27-23 at 09:36 AM.
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#67
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For all the bicycles, ebikes and escooters manufactured, their negative impact on the environment is minuscule in comparison to the number of motorized vehicles and EVs. Compare by weight of raw material used, it's even lower.
So if there's a budget to work on sustainability, where do you think that $1 should be spent, on the bicycle industry or on the automotive industry?
So if there's a budget to work on sustainability, where do you think that $1 should be spent, on the bicycle industry or on the automotive industry?
#68
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The people who generated this are actual climate scientists who are working with actual data. You know, as opposed to people with no actual education or training in the subject who nonetheless think they know more than those who do have education and training in the subject.
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The MIT report released a couple of years ago comparing EV vs combustion engine lifecycle emissions concluded that EVs are significantly less polluting overall (especially when used on cleaner electricity grids), but still not enough on their own to meet long-term government emission targets. But interestingly, the popular media deliberately mis-quoted this report to make it sound like EVs were environmentally worse. I read both the media stories and the actual MIT report and they were like chalk and cheese. The authors of the report actually wrote a complaint letter about this mis-representation to a number of newspapers, but nobody really paid attention beyond the original click bait.
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...thank you for not moving this thread to teh P+R. It would have been wasted in there.
...thank you for not moving this thread to teh P+R. It would have been wasted in there.
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The people who generated this are actual climate scientists who are working with actual data. You know, as opposed to people with no actual education or training in the subject who nonetheless think they know more than those who do have education and training in the subject.
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https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...48-9326/ac2966
"The scientific consensus that humans are altering the climate has passed 99.9%, according to research that strengthens the case for global action at the Cop26 summit in Glasgow."
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...used-by-humans
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Re: EVs .... who has done long-term impact studies about the mining and refining of Rare Earths (particularly in Communist China, where environmental laws do no t exist) and the long-term storage of dead EV batteries? We know most of them will end up in the "EV Battareez--Hazerdis" section of some landfill in some small town somewhere, leaching away through the never-maintained liner ..... As for the rest they are cars .... same energy and material requirements to build. Still need tarmac to drive on. Still need lubricants. Maybe generating the needed energy for recharge is cleaner than refining it to gasoline and burning it ..... but that is not "life-cycle" impact. That is "use-cycle" impact. Those old Pintos and Caprices are rusting slowly in junkyards, doing only very minor damage to local water supplies .... but a stack of hundreds of EV battery packs, under a tarp somewhere .....
#75
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For aluminum, it’s 16 tons CO2/ton of aluminum.
In keeping with the ever evolving theme:
WWJD if he had to run for public office or vote in an election?
Last edited by seypat; 03-27-23 at 12:54 PM.