Classic era touring rear derailleur
#1
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Classic era touring rear derailleur
I’m building up a late 70s bike with a 13-34 freewheel. A buddy has offered me the following. Which shifts the best? Any other period correctish (70s/early 80s) options that would work better?
- Campagnolo rally w the reinforced neck
- suntour cyclone
- shimano XT (stretching the period a bit)
- Campagnolo rally w the reinforced neck
- suntour cyclone
- shimano XT (stretching the period a bit)
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Those are all good choices. However, the classic under-rated wide range derailleur from that period would have to be the Suntour VGT Luxe, in my view. Strong and robust mechanically, yet surprisingly light.
Circa 1975, with Suntour sealed bearing pulleys...
Circa 1975, with Suntour sealed bearing pulleys...
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I'd go with first generation XT from around 1983--Deerhead/Deore XT/M700: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...1st_style.html
In fact, I just installed a set on an early 70s road frame, figuring that's what the discerning owner would have upgraded to when he decided to do some touring in the early 80s.
In fact, I just installed a set on an early 70s road frame, figuring that's what the discerning owner would have upgraded to when he decided to do some touring in the early 80s.
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Here are a couple more nice long-cage and period-correct RDs to consider. I believe that the Crane was basically early Dura Ace.
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I'm a big fan of the Cyclone GT, but I'm just running a 13-30 cassette..
The SunTour VGT is going to shift just as well, weigh a bit more, and be more robust.
The Shimano Crane is pretty sexy too, and likely works great.
The Huret Duopar has French charm, but a weird way to attach to the dropout and a potentially fragile 2nd parallelogram. Might be the derailleur for you if you like living dangerously!
The Campagnolo Rally might be fine, but when you think touring, you don't think "Campagnolo". Never made any sense to me.
Steve in Peoria, with a distinct Japanese bias when it comes to touring gear.
The SunTour VGT is going to shift just as well, weigh a bit more, and be more robust.
The Shimano Crane is pretty sexy too, and likely works great.
The Huret Duopar has French charm, but a weird way to attach to the dropout and a potentially fragile 2nd parallelogram. Might be the derailleur for you if you like living dangerously!
The Campagnolo Rally might be fine, but when you think touring, you don't think "Campagnolo". Never made any sense to me.
Steve in Peoria, with a distinct Japanese bias when it comes to touring gear.
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I’m running a Cyclone GT with a 12-32 in back and a triple up front, and it’s great.
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If you're after function and considering a Rally, a Shimano Crane GS is probably a better choice. The early Rallys are basically a knock-off of the Crane GS: they look nice, but the Shimano original is more durable and lighter (in addition to less expensive).
If you go with a Cyclone, obviously get a GT model, not the short-cage.
- suntour cyclone
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If you're after function and considering a Rally, a Shimano Crane GS is probably a better choice. The early Rallys are basically a knock-off of the Crane GS: they look nice, but the Shimano original is more durable and lighter (in addition to less expensive).
If you go with a Cyclone, obviously get a GT model, not the short-cage.
If you go with a Cyclone, obviously get a GT model, not the short-cage.
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The long cage XT would be hard to beat for performance.
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#14
Pedal to the medal
Rally for panache
Cyclone for practicality AND looks, (plus the split cage is a nice feature to have while touring.)
XT if you're someone who eats pizza with a knife and fork
The choice is yours.
Cyclone for practicality AND looks, (plus the split cage is a nice feature to have while touring.)
XT if you're someone who eats pizza with a knife and fork
The choice is yours.
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Another for the Cyclone GT, better looking and lighter then the other cheaper Suntour RDs. Nothing will shift better, and as stated before period correct.
Tim
Tim
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The Suntour of that era obviously has the advantage of their patent on the mechanism, which had not yet expired so the others could copy it.
The Shimano 600EX (a precursor to the XT you mention), also works well.
The one that has never worked well for me (but gets raves from many other people), is that Huret Ecopar/Duopar, with all the little pivot points to wear out.
The older Shimano Crane with the long cage is a very solid performer, but somewhat expensive to buy on ebay nowadays.
I always look them up on Disraeli Gears, to get his impressions of performance.
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I've had this thing about "trying out all kinds of touring derailleurs" on my bikes.
If you're to be period correct-ish about your stuff, and you're going to be riding it, you want the best shifting unit, and you're just limiting yourself to these 3...
The Rally is cool- it's unique, it's Campagnolo, it looks cool... I've never used one- but you don't hear much of any good stuff mentioned about them. If you're NOT going to be riding it- the Rally might be a good choice for a neat looking conversation piece. But not a neat looking conversation piece when you're 15 miles from the nearest town and it decides to explode.
The XT derailleur... As you probably know, Deore XT was really built for ATBs- rugged, reliable and the best Shimano had- and there are many versions of Deore XT- I think there are 4 different generations during the 80s, with bunches of variations in each generation. The black covered M730, 732 and M735 are just incredible derailleurs and really set the standard. If it's one of those, it'll be a bit anachronistic- but it'll be the best. If it's the silver deer head- M700- I would stay away from the "super plate" version- but the free pulley version- it's a good choice.
The Cyclone... The Cyclone was one of the lightest, and best shifting derailleurs both of its day and to this very day. They're great and reliable and it's easy to get the chain off, and it's beautiful to look at. I used both a "first generation" and an MII on my 720 for a while- they just felt much more "dainty" than other touring derailleurs. I have not heard a whole bunch of 'Cyclone derailleurs' giving out stories- but I have heard of it. You'd probably be absolutely fine- and it'll be period correct and it'll shift flawlessly and it'll be dominant...
I know you said between the 3- but a 70s tourer should come with the Suntour V-GT Luxe. It'll be as good as the Cyclone and with all the robustness you could want.
My choice- in order- XT M730-M735, Cyclone, XT M700 (either version), Rally.
If you're to be period correct-ish about your stuff, and you're going to be riding it, you want the best shifting unit, and you're just limiting yourself to these 3...
The Rally is cool- it's unique, it's Campagnolo, it looks cool... I've never used one- but you don't hear much of any good stuff mentioned about them. If you're NOT going to be riding it- the Rally might be a good choice for a neat looking conversation piece. But not a neat looking conversation piece when you're 15 miles from the nearest town and it decides to explode.
The XT derailleur... As you probably know, Deore XT was really built for ATBs- rugged, reliable and the best Shimano had- and there are many versions of Deore XT- I think there are 4 different generations during the 80s, with bunches of variations in each generation. The black covered M730, 732 and M735 are just incredible derailleurs and really set the standard. If it's one of those, it'll be a bit anachronistic- but it'll be the best. If it's the silver deer head- M700- I would stay away from the "super plate" version- but the free pulley version- it's a good choice.
The Cyclone... The Cyclone was one of the lightest, and best shifting derailleurs both of its day and to this very day. They're great and reliable and it's easy to get the chain off, and it's beautiful to look at. I used both a "first generation" and an MII on my 720 for a while- they just felt much more "dainty" than other touring derailleurs. I have not heard a whole bunch of 'Cyclone derailleurs' giving out stories- but I have heard of it. You'd probably be absolutely fine- and it'll be period correct and it'll shift flawlessly and it'll be dominant...
I know you said between the 3- but a 70s tourer should come with the Suntour V-GT Luxe. It'll be as good as the Cyclone and with all the robustness you could want.
My choice- in order- XT M730-M735, Cyclone, XT M700 (either version), Rally.
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......
The Cyclone... The Cyclone was one of the lightest, and best shifting derailleurs both of its day and to this very day. They're great and reliable and it's easy to get the chain off, and it's beautiful to look at. I used both a "first generation" and an MII on my 720 for a while- they just felt much more "dainty" than other touring derailleurs. I have not heard a whole bunch of 'Cyclone derailleurs' giving out stories- but I have heard of it. You'd probably be absolutely fine- and it'll be period correct and it'll shift flawlessly and it'll be dominant...
......
The Cyclone... The Cyclone was one of the lightest, and best shifting derailleurs both of its day and to this very day. They're great and reliable and it's easy to get the chain off, and it's beautiful to look at. I used both a "first generation" and an MII on my 720 for a while- they just felt much more "dainty" than other touring derailleurs. I have not heard a whole bunch of 'Cyclone derailleurs' giving out stories- but I have heard of it. You'd probably be absolutely fine- and it'll be period correct and it'll shift flawlessly and it'll be dominant...
......
well, I'm a fan of the Cyclone GT and have used them since they were new. Still, I feel compelled to mention that I've had two where the lower pivot spring has broken. One broke while the bike was in the work stand, which is perfect timing!
The other broke 3 miles into a bike ride. The chain managed to jump out of the pulleys and jam between the hub flange and freewheel. Somehow the chain managed to also hang up in the front derailleur and cause significant damage.
Some photos, just because...
the disassembled derailleur, with a good spring shown next to the broken spring. The bent end that fits into the hole in the derailleur pivot housing is what broke.
and a close-up of the break
I created a thread about this on the I-Bob group, and was surprised at how many folks have suffered various types of failures. There was no obvious problem with these lower pivot springs, based on the discussion at that time.
By chance, my touring bike has SunTour canti brakes, which use springs with a similar right-hand bend. I had one of these break in the same way, but just that one failure. No indication of a design or manufacturing problem.
There have been some reports of broken lower pivot springs on the Cyclone GT Mark II too, even though the design is completely different. There is a general rule that says "everything eventually breaks", which seems applicable for 40 year old derailleurs.
Steve in Peoria
(I had to carry the poor bike for the 3 mile walk home)
Last edited by steelbikeguy; 08-18-21 at 10:38 AM.
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is there a sticky thread on "broken derailleurs"?
well, I'm a fan of the Cyclone GT and have used them since they were new. Still, I feel compelled to mention that I've had two where the lower pivot spring has broken. One broke while the bike was in the work stand, which is perfect timing!
The other broke 3 miles into a bike ride. The chain managed to jump out of the pulleys and jam between the hub flange and freewheel. Somehow the chain managed to also hang up in the front derailleur and cause significant damage.
Some photos, just because...
the disassembled derailleur, with a good spring shown next to the broken spring. The bent end that fits into the hole in the derailleur pivot housing is what broke.
and a close-up of the break
I created a thread about this on the I-Bob group, and was surprised at how many folks have suffered various types of failures. There was no obvious problem with these lower pivot springs, based on the discussion at that time.
By chance, my touring bike has SunTour canti brakes, which use springs with a similar right-hand bend. I had one of these break in the same way, but just that one failure. No indication of a design or manufacturing problem.
There have been some reports of broken lower pivot springs on the Cyclone GT Mark II too, even though the design is completely different. There is a general rule that says "everything eventually breaks", which seems applicable for 40 year old derailleurs.
Steve in Peoria
(I had to carry the poor bike for the 3 mile walk home)
well, I'm a fan of the Cyclone GT and have used them since they were new. Still, I feel compelled to mention that I've had two where the lower pivot spring has broken. One broke while the bike was in the work stand, which is perfect timing!
The other broke 3 miles into a bike ride. The chain managed to jump out of the pulleys and jam between the hub flange and freewheel. Somehow the chain managed to also hang up in the front derailleur and cause significant damage.
Some photos, just because...
the disassembled derailleur, with a good spring shown next to the broken spring. The bent end that fits into the hole in the derailleur pivot housing is what broke.
and a close-up of the break
I created a thread about this on the I-Bob group, and was surprised at how many folks have suffered various types of failures. There was no obvious problem with these lower pivot springs, based on the discussion at that time.
By chance, my touring bike has SunTour canti brakes, which use springs with a similar right-hand bend. I had one of these break in the same way, but just that one failure. No indication of a design or manufacturing problem.
There have been some reports of broken lower pivot springs on the Cyclone GT Mark II too, even though the design is completely different. There is a general rule that says "everything eventually breaks", which seems applicable for 40 year old derailleurs.
Steve in Peoria
(I had to carry the poor bike for the 3 mile walk home)
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Maybe I missed it, but what bike are we talking about? For me, that would be a major factor, as all of these derailleurs shift well enough, as long as they are in good condition.
The SunTour GT's are beautiful derailleurs that shift really well, but even if period-correct, they would look sorely out of place on a French bike with MAFAC brakes, Philippe bars and an Idéale saddle. There, you want a Simplex or Huret derailleur.
The SunTour GT's are beautiful derailleurs that shift really well, but even if period-correct, they would look sorely out of place on a French bike with MAFAC brakes, Philippe bars and an Idéale saddle. There, you want a Simplex or Huret derailleur.
#25
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Maybe I missed it, but what bike are we talking about? For me, that would be a major factor, as all of these derailleurs shift well enough, as long as they are in good condition.
The SunTour GT's are beautiful derailleurs that shift really well, but even if period-correct, they would look sorely out of place on a French bike with MAFAC brakes, Philippe bars and an Idéale saddle. There, you want a Simplex or Huret derailleur.
The SunTour GT's are beautiful derailleurs that shift really well, but even if period-correct, they would look sorely out of place on a French bike with MAFAC brakes, Philippe bars and an Idéale saddle. There, you want a Simplex or Huret derailleur.
The bike I originally posted about is a Cinelli SC that I'm building up from the frame. Most of it is Campy NR but I'm straying from the narrow freewheel.
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