omarcastz

Knowledgeable people of Bikeforums:

Short Version: Messed up by riding Mavic R-Sys SLR wheels. Need a recommendation for a good everyday replacement wheels for safety reasons. My stats: 125 lbs in weight, 5’-6” height. Into 2nd year of cycling. Wheels used for training, beginner racing, century rides, gran fondo rides, etc. budget is no object but I don’t believe that I need the most expensive thing as a relative beginner.

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Long version: I believe I messed up with a wheel purchase and need your help in a wheel recommendation replacement. Below is the deal:
My CAAD10 came with a pair of Mavic R-Sys SLR wheels (yes you read that right). I inquired about a wheel upgrade when I got the bike from the stock Mavic Askiums. I believe that the bike shop wanted to offload these R-SYS wheels so I got an insanely great price on them (I got my bicycle around the time they are looking to clear inventory for the new models). Being a total newbie and not having any knowledge I said OK as I found out the discount was more than 60% off MSRP. These wheels worked great for me for about a year and a half as I was getting into the sport and building my fitness. The braking is extremely good, they are insanely light and they work well for climbing. Those are the good things about them.

Once I started doing some more serious hill riding I noticed that the front wheel felt unstable and unsafe during long descents. It is downright scary and more and more I began losing confidence in the wheels. It was then that looked at the reputation of these wheels online and found out about the failures. Apparently I have the “fixed” version of these wheels but knowing the reputation now and the fact that the front wheel does not feel safe (descending on an old borrowed Ksyrium Elite feels a lot better) does not give me confidence in the wheelset. They are ok for short hills and for flat riding (though I also realized that they feel like molasses when comparing them to just about ANY other wheel now that I have tried other rider’s wheels).

I am looking at recommendations for replacement wheels mostly for safety reasons but since I will be replacing them I would like to get the best bang for the buck I can. I am only into my second year of cycling and while I do have the budget to get top of the line Zip 303’s or Enves (which believe it or not is what some people I talked to recommend), I am not convinced that I need top of the line wheels at this point. I am looking for a good all-around clincher wheel that I can use every day for amateur road races, century rides, gran fondos and the odd triathlon event.

My specs: I weight 125 lbs, 5’-6” in height. Love to climb hills and I seem to do better in hills than my peers but I do tend to struggle a little and have to work harder to keep up with the group on flat rides. I am primarily cycling for fun and fitness and as a hobby and don’t have any illusions of being or even attempting to look like a PRO. I ride a CAAD 10 which is good enough for me. Budget for the wheels is anything from $100.00 to $3,0000 (so basically not limited by budget) but I am looking at best bang for the buck wheels.

I have done a lot of reading online. Enough to know that these SLR wheels are the least aero, have safety issues, they are proprietary in design, and that for the original MSRP they cost one can get a much better set of wheels. I am not looking to buy speed. I am also probably not looking at top of the line zipps (they would most likely be wasted on me as a relative beginner). I want a to feel safe on a set of wheels that are not a proprietary design as the Mavics. They must be clinchers but there are so many options out there with Carbon Clinchers, Carbon/Alloy Hybrids, and Alloy wheels that my head is spinning from reading so much. I just want to ride my bike and feel safe coming down mountains damn it…. With the thousands of options out there I am not looking to get a definitive answer by asking this forum because I now that is virtually impossible. What I am looking at is certain recommendations to narrow down the field for me and at least steer me in the right direction (I want to not make the same mistake again. fool me once kind of thing). Thanks for reading and sorry for the long post. Love the site and the community here.

Elvo

Enve 3.4 Powertap. Can't really beat that.

Jed19

Many many options. Shimano Dura-Ace 9000 C24?

gsa103

Some options:
Boyd, November, Flo
Custom build (w/ Powertap?)
Shimano C24
Fulcrum/Campagnolo Racing # (lower is better and more expensive)

All of those have good options in the $500-$1000 price range. High quality carbon wheels will likely run more. You're into climbing, so a rim with alloy braking is probably best for descents. The main issue with carbon is heat build-up during long descents, so since you like climbing, I'd advise sticking with name brand carbon, if you go that route. With your build virtually any decent wheel should be problem free, so no issues with low spoke counts.

Some other factors:
1) Clincher, tubeless, tubular?
Tubeless ride quality is definitely better than a standard clincher. With tubeless compatible wheels you can always run clinchers.

2) Weight vs aero?
A shallow rim like the Shimano C24 will be lighter, which is better for climbing at the expense of aero.

3) Rim width
The latest trend is for 23mm wide brake tracks for a wider tire footprint and better aerodynamics. The result is supposed to be a more stable tire footprint for better cornering.

I <3 Robots

Reynolds has some pretty reasonably priced carbon clinchers.

Maybe go with a staggered pair of the Attack (29mm) and Assault (41mm)?

Boyd and November have some pretty legit looking wheels too.

rpenmanparker 

What tires are you using? Are they the proprietary tires recommended by Mavic for these wheels? Is it possible those weird tires are the problem? There are a lot a peculiar things about the wheels it's true, but the weights are really not that low so as to cause safety issues. I ride 1,270 g clinchers (not including skewers) that have no issues for me. It's true the wheels are strange, but not in any way to make them suspect.

omarcastz

That is another thing... the R-Sys SLR wheels came with Mavic's own proprietary tires in 23mm width. They worked well enough but at the time I was not doing long descents on them. They did wear out at 1,900 miles though. Since then I have used Vittoria Rubino Pro 23c, then moved to a combination of continental Grand Prix 4000S in 23c and 25c depending on terrain. I've played around with tire pressures and tire widths. Currently running the 25c Grand Prix 4000S at 90 PSI front and 95 to 100 PSI back and the 23c at 100 PSI front and 110 PSI back. After trying 23c and 25c, with these wheels I personally prefer the 23c ride at higher PSI (but these wheels have narrow rim width so that may be the reason). I also like choosing tires and not having to buy Mavics own tires (which are basically impossible to find stock at all the local LBS in the area). That said, with all tires the front wheel felt unsafe.

here is what I am worried about: A shattering experience - A post-recall, R-Sys wheel failure - VeloNews.com
Mine are also the post recall version. I was already feeling iffy about the front wheel on descents and then when I started doing research I found out about the issues with these. Found several sites outlining the issues with these wheels which, coupled with my experience, make me feel less than comfortable using them. Also ran into this study on various wheels including the R-Sys: Great wheel test 2008 ? Part 1 ? Aerodynamics | Roues Artisanales
Basically the finding on the R-SYS is that they are just about the least efficient wheels out there. So, least efficient wheels, with (probable) safety issues... Trying to cut my loses and move on to something proven and better.

Thanks everyone for answering. Really appreciate the time taken by each of you to reply to my post.
Some people I talked to pointed to the Shimano C24s or C35s as a good replacement so it is nice to see this as well. Ditto on Reynolds Attack and Assault, people seem to love these things.

A follow up question I have on Carbon Clinchers is with regards to safety with them (since I am moving from the r-sys primarily for peace of mind with regards to safety). Doing research on replacement wheels brought up the issue of overheating rims on carbon clinchers. Is this still an issue in 2014? Is this something that I should be worried about as a 125 lb rider? Are people riding carbon clinchers without any issues nowadays? Do you recommend I stick with alloy brake tracks at this point?

woodcraft

I think you're psyching yourself out.

I had a crash (more of a mechanical) a couple of years ago, in windy conditions, and became very concerned about the integrity of my (carbon) fork- it seemed prone to shimmy. Turned out that I was jiggling it to see if it would wobble, and it did. No issue otherwise, and when I calmed down, so did the bike.

Anyway, I have R-SYS wheels, and like them. A bit high strung with the compression ring and all, but very light and stiff.
I think the aero factor is overblown- like coming in last in a race, but 3 seconds behind the winner.
If they were so unsafe, wouldn't there be more to read about than one high profile event five years ago?

It's my understanding that they are still selling well, particularly in Europe, where many race on them. A buddy recently got a set after an unfortunate pre-ride mishap trashed his wheel. He rides a primo bike & no doubt did some research.

There might be an R-SYS support group out there, to work through these issues....

lgp927

What are u doing w those r sys wheels .? Post or send pics I'll buy them off you

CALE262

I have a set of the R-SYS SLR wheels, I only ran the included tires for maybe 100km before switching them them out for 25mm open Corsa's. They're two seasons old now, I race crits with them, was doing some high speed, switch back, mountain descents training with them today in Banff. For comparison sake I also currently run ENVE 3.4's and Lightweights, I'm 170lbs and my R-sys wheels have been extremely solid under all conditions...

omarcastz

"There might be an R-SYS support group out there, to work through these issues...." Well played sir!

Perhaps you are right. I got scared about reading all the bad reviews online about these wheels. I really do love the braking performance of them and they do extremely well for going up steep climbs. In descents with strong gusts of wind though, the front wheel seems to get thrown quite a bit which is what feels so unsafe for me but then again I may just have to keep riding and get used to it. The posts I found online strongly advised against riding them which threw a big red flag for me. My primary concern with these wheels was safety. Maybe I am over-reacting to the safety issue but when doing long descents at high speed, I am essentially putting my life in the hands of the equipment I use. I need to at least "believe" that the equipment is dependable. Knowing there were issues with these at least puts a bit of doubt in my mind.

omarcastz

Thanks for your input. It is great to know that people are still using these without any issues. It is not a wheel I see used often (I see lots of zipps, enves, dura ace wheels, reynolds, and other mavic wheels as well as your assortment of custom built wheels). I figured most people would steer clear of them for their early reputation with regards to safety but it appears to not be the case.

pdedes

I just got some 3.0 clinchers from bikesoul.com. Check out similar offerings from nugent cycling, Boyd and others already mentioned.

valygrl

So, i do also think you are psyching yourself out, but I support your decision to get wheels you aren't worried about. Worrying about your wheel on a descent takes the fun out of it and makes you slower and less confident, which means you ride worse.

If you love the braking and are not a very fast confident descender (meaning, you will be braking a lot on tight technical descents) and if you will EVER ride in the rain, I would suggest you NOT get carbon clinchers, because the braking isn't as good.

Also, as a smaller person myself, you might find you don't like very deep wheels in cross winds. Smaller people are much more affected. If you do go deep, plan to keep another front wheel around for really windy days.

There are lots of light, relatively cheap choices for aluminum clinchers, mentioned above.

If you want custom, I'd recommend calling wheelbuilder.com and working with them to design a custom wheel. THey are super knowledgable and will help you decide, and their customer service is outstanding. I have a velocity A23 laced to an Alchemy Elf with Sapim CX-Rays from them that I like quite bit. You can keep the rear RSYS if you don't mind mismatched wheels, or buy a whole set and keep the Mavics around for pit wheels for crits.

Oh, and before you do anything, put some good tires on the wheels you have and try them again - it totally might be tires. I like Michelin Pro4 Service Course.

woodcraft

Re descending,

Deeper section rims will tend to be affected more by cross winds, as valygrl points out.

The thicker spokes of the R SYS catch a bit more wind than thinner spokes, but I don't notice much difference.

It may be more about technique than the wheels- gripping the bars tightly, and fighting against being moved some by the wind both end up making you feel, and in fact be, less stable. As a lighter rider, you're going to get blown around- try concentrating your weight on the outside pedal in the down position, to keep the COG low, and a light grip on the bars.

You might also try lower air pressure. Over inflated = more bouncing around, & less grip. If I weighed 125, I'd probably be running 75/80, or 80/85.

thunderworks

We're almost the identical size. I have several bikes, one of which has Zipp 303's and the other has Mavic Ksyrium wheels. In the right wind conditions, I can get blown around a lot. I get occasional shimmy. I really think my weight (and be extension, yours), is the culprit. Lower air pressure seems to help, but when you're a fly weight, the wind can play havoc. Perhaps your R-Sys wheels have problems, but frankly, I doubt it. I don't want to diminish your concern. The psychology of riding in a comfort zone is very important, but I think it's at least possible that you could have issues with any wheel in similar conditions when you experience problems with the Mavics.

heavier riders have specific issues - but so do flyweights like us.

omarcastz

Back from a week-end trip with voluntary ban on internet access. First of all, I really want to thank everyone that took the time to read and reply to my post(s). You have all provided me with valuable information as a relative newcomer to the sport.

thanks to everyone that chimed in with wheel replacement recommendations. They are pretty much in line with the people I have spoken to personally (probably due to the reputation of the products). It appears that carbon clinchers are definitely something that I am probably not suited for at this time. That is good to know. Perhaps with more experience I can jump into the tubular bandwagon but at this time I like to have the user friendliness and versatility of clinchers.

Also thanks to the people that took the time to offer advice on descent technique, tire pressure recommendations, issues for lightweight riders like myself regarding deep section wheels, etc. This was more than I could have ever hoped for when I initially posted.

I really do only have an issue with the front wheel (due to the high profile failure/recall history) when on long steep descents with gusts of wind. Though it very much appears that getting thrown around a bit in this scenario will happen no matter what wheel set I use from your posts. Other than that the wheels are fine, though perhaps I will replace the front wheel with something that I know has not had any high profile failure history on the days with long steep descents. This is just for the psychological aspect of it, I want/need to be confident in the equipment. I can keep the front R-Sys wheel and use it just about any other day I'm not coming down in upwards of 30mph.

First of all though, I will take your suggestions to relax on the descents and don't freak out about being moved around by the wind as well as your recommendations on tire pressure.

I've said it many times already in this post but thanks again to all of you for your valuable input. You all rock!

mrisaac

These are the best rim brake wheels ever made. I'm 200 pounds and they are very stable.