Saw this severing of Specialized's ties with a LBS
#26
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,446
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3144 Post(s)
Liked 1,708 Times
in
1,032 Posts
What’s the option? Mike’s ordered the 400 units; it’s not 400 people who ordered from Specialized. Specialized probably don’t know who ordered what or have contact info for them, but most importantly, we know they don’t have their money because Mike’s said they have it in the letter. So what’s Spesh supposed to do? Sell the bikes through an unofficial dealer channel? Of course not. They had no choice but to cancel the orders, and evidenced by the way Mike’s is throwing Spesh under the bus, they made the right call; it would have been even messier any other way.
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,434
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4409 Post(s)
Liked 4,861 Times
in
3,007 Posts
Of course they had a choice. Presumably those bikes had been ordered by Mike's when they were still a Specialized dealer right? The money is available to pay for them, so Specialized could have simply supplied those remaining bikes and refused to accept any further new orders.
But instead Specialized decided to cancel all outstanding orders. I'm guessing they simply don't have any stock available in the near future and cancelling makes their life a bit easier, while inflicting maximum damage to their ex-dealer.
I don't have a dog in this fight (never even heard of Mike's Bikes), but it seems like sour grapes to me.
But instead Specialized decided to cancel all outstanding orders. I'm guessing they simply don't have any stock available in the near future and cancelling makes their life a bit easier, while inflicting maximum damage to their ex-dealer.
I don't have a dog in this fight (never even heard of Mike's Bikes), but it seems like sour grapes to me.
Likes For PeteHski:
#29
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,446
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3144 Post(s)
Liked 1,708 Times
in
1,032 Posts
Of course they had a choice. Presumably those bikes had been ordered by Mike's when they were still a Specialized dealer right? The money is available to pay for them, so Specialized could have simply supplied those remaining bikes and refused to accept any further new orders.
But instead Specialized decided to cancel all outstanding orders. I'm guessing they simply don't have any stock available in the near future and cancelling makes their life a bit easier, while inflicting maximum damage to their ex-dealer.
I don't have a dog in this fight (never even heard of Mike's Bikes), but it seems like sour grapes to me.
But instead Specialized decided to cancel all outstanding orders. I'm guessing they simply don't have any stock available in the near future and cancelling makes their life a bit easier, while inflicting maximum damage to their ex-dealer.
I don't have a dog in this fight (never even heard of Mike's Bikes), but it seems like sour grapes to me.
I detailed upthread just a few of the problems created with other choices, but you’ve not proposed any alternate pathway, so I don’t know what more to tell you. And if you think it would be anything other than foolish for Spesh to furnish bikes to an unofficial dealer— at what, dealer prices?— then I really don’t know what to tell you. And what incentive is there for Pon to ink the deal with Mike’s while turning over the sale of hundreds of bikes to another company?
To be sure, I don’t **** about the actual deal, contractual obligations, or monies involved in any of this, so I’m just considering and talking biz basics here, but if you can weave a viable counter narrative where Spesh doesn’t cancel the orders, do explain it for me.
#30
-------
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Tejas
Posts: 12,795
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9653 Post(s)
Liked 6,365 Times
in
3,505 Posts
So much speculation in this thread about what Spesh did or didn't do, and so much lack of knowledge of contract law as well.
Lots of Specialized haters beatin on Specialized while having no real knowledge of what exactly was going on between it and Mike's.
Lots of Specialized haters beatin on Specialized while having no real knowledge of what exactly was going on between it and Mike's.
Likes For Mojo31:
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,434
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4409 Post(s)
Liked 4,861 Times
in
3,007 Posts
But that’s my point, that the choices were all worse outcomes; there was no better choice that I can imagine.
I detailed upthread just a few of the problems created with other choices, but you’ve not proposed any alternate pathway, so I don’t know what more to tell you. And if you think it would be anything other than foolish for Spesh to furnish bikes to an unofficial dealer— at what, dealer prices?— then I really don’t know what to tell you. And what incentive is there for Pon to ink the deal with Mike’s while turning over the sale of hundreds of bikes to another company?
To be sure, I don’t **** about the actual deal, contractual obligations, or monies involved in any of this, so I’m just considering and talking biz basics here, but if you can weave a viable counter narrative where Spesh doesn’t cancel the orders, do explain it for me.
I detailed upthread just a few of the problems created with other choices, but you’ve not proposed any alternate pathway, so I don’t know what more to tell you. And if you think it would be anything other than foolish for Spesh to furnish bikes to an unofficial dealer— at what, dealer prices?— then I really don’t know what to tell you. And what incentive is there for Pon to ink the deal with Mike’s while turning over the sale of hundreds of bikes to another company?
To be sure, I don’t **** about the actual deal, contractual obligations, or monies involved in any of this, so I’m just considering and talking biz basics here, but if you can weave a viable counter narrative where Spesh doesn’t cancel the orders, do explain it for me.
#32
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,636
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4735 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
On the flip side, those same 400 are maybe wondering what the point was in giving Mike's the full selling price in advance, if it never even made it out of their shop and to Specialized.
#33
-------
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Tejas
Posts: 12,795
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9653 Post(s)
Liked 6,365 Times
in
3,505 Posts
The "order" is between the retail customer and Mike's. Mike's order is then placed with Specialized. When Mike's receives the product it ordered from Specialized, then it pays Specialized. When Mike's sells the product to its customer, then it collects its money from the customer. Deposits placed by the retail customer never becomes the property of the supplier/manufacture, and the supplier/manufacturer never receives that money.
If Specialized cancelled Mike's orders, it was likely because Mike's did something to breach its contract with Specialized. Since Mikes likely sold its business to PON in the form of an asset sale, Specialized probably had a right to cancel its contract with Mike's since the Mike's Bikes entity would no longer be in business. Mike's Bikes put itself in a position where it could not deliver on its promises to its customers. That is not Specialized's fault.
Likes For Mojo31:
#34
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,636
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4735 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
That's not how it works. A customer's deposit becomes pre-paid income to the retail store. The money doesn't go to the supplier/manufacturer. Once the product is delivered to the retailer, the retailer must pay the supplier/manufacturer's invoice on the terms specified in the contract between the retailer and supplier/manufacturer.
#35
-------
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Tejas
Posts: 12,795
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9653 Post(s)
Liked 6,365 Times
in
3,505 Posts
That's not how what works? I think we're saying the same thing. The full payment for a bike in advance, does NOTHING for the purchaser in getting a bike any sooner. An order into the manufacturer from whatever shop, is just like any other order. Specialized it seems, has no idea which orders were prepaid, vs which only had deposits. So Mike's taking full payment, was all on them -- and not sure what, if any, promises were made to customers to get them to pay in full at time of order.
I was more addressing those who have posted that Spesh may owe Mike's customers something. It does not.
#36
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,636
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4735 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
ok. Though I think both parties could have behaved better and worked something out. Specialized had 400 customers (albeit through an intermediary and they maybe don't know who they are) who in general aren't going to be exactly happy (with anyone or either party).
#37
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35, Kona Rove, Trek Verve+2
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 722 Times
in
366 Posts
I'm just struggling with the whole "hand over some cash and not get a bike then and there" thing.
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,434
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4409 Post(s)
Liked 4,861 Times
in
3,007 Posts
A lot of bikes are on crazy back-order. A few shops have suggested that I need to order a bike now if I want to see it by the middle of next year. So they would naturally want a deposit to secure the order. The days of just buying whatever bike stock is in the shop are over - unless you really don't care what bike you end up with.
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,434
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4409 Post(s)
Liked 4,861 Times
in
3,007 Posts
That was my thought too. Ultimately both Specialized and Mike's will lose customer goodwill by Specialized cancelling those orders. Especially as bikes are now so difficult to get hold of.
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,473
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1743 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times
in
740 Posts
Specialized once sued a bike shop called The Roubaix Cycling Studio in Canada for copyright infringement. As if they themselves hadn't "borrowed" the name. Between their corporate antics and Trek's throwing LeMond under the bus over Lance Armstrong, I've never bought a Specialized or Trek. Never will.
#41
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35, Kona Rove, Trek Verve+2
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 722 Times
in
366 Posts
A lot of bikes are on crazy back-order. A few shops have suggested that I need to order a bike now if I want to see it by the middle of next year. So they would naturally want a deposit to secure the order. The days of just buying whatever bike stock is in the shop are over - unless you really don't care what bike you end up with.
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,434
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4409 Post(s)
Liked 4,861 Times
in
3,007 Posts
There are very few bikes currently in stock and everything I would have been interested in buying is sold out until 2022 in my size. Nobody is giving exact time frames for delivery next year, but people are getting in line with their deposits.
It is not a normal situation.
#43
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,636
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4735 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
Have you been living under a rock since the end of 2019?
There are very few bikes currently in stock and everything I would have been interested in buying is sold out until 2022 in my size. Nobody is giving exact time frames for delivery next year, but people are getting in line with their deposits.
It is not a normal situation.
There are very few bikes currently in stock and everything I would have been interested in buying is sold out until 2022 in my size. Nobody is giving exact time frames for delivery next year, but people are getting in line with their deposits.
It is not a normal situation.
#44
Mostly Harmless
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 56,592
Bikes: Have two wheels
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13714 Post(s)
Liked 4,530 Times
in
2,506 Posts
Reporting from Bicycle Retailer about the sale of Mike's
UPDATED: Bay Area retail powerhouse Mike's Bikes sold to Pon Group, the owner of Santa Cruz and Cervelo | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
The new owner of Mike's
Pon Bike - We are one of the top five players in the global bicycle industry
UPDATED: Bay Area retail powerhouse Mike's Bikes sold to Pon Group, the owner of Santa Cruz and Cervelo | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
The new owner of Mike's
Pon Bike - We are one of the top five players in the global bicycle industry
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,905
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4806 Post(s)
Liked 3,928 Times
in
2,553 Posts
Specialized has a long history of not being a welcome player in the bike world. I was oblivious to this until I read of the law team contracted by Specialized going after a small shop in a small town in Canada for using the name Roubaix. This despite Specialized not owning the name but leasing it from the parent of Fuji. (Someone learned of this, posted it and it went viral.) While this was current news, I heard about them going after a bikeshop in Maryland, shutting down a small Portland outfit and forcing a Portland wheelbuilder to rename her operation. Basically the bully in the playground. The law barely applies to protect bike shops. None of them can afford to contest a cease and desist letter from Specialized with its basically unlimited deep pockets.
Specialized has lost me as a customer (of parts and clothes; I was never likely to buy one of their bikes). They've lost me as a kind or even neutral voice towards them who is someone listened to by some in bike circles. This by their deliberate choices.
Specialized has lost me as a customer (of parts and clothes; I was never likely to buy one of their bikes). They've lost me as a kind or even neutral voice towards them who is someone listened to by some in bike circles. This by their deliberate choices.
Likes For 79pmooney:
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,659
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1248 Post(s)
Liked 1,323 Times
in
674 Posts
Not sure why the hate for Specialized. Mikes was a dealer for Specialized and must have known selling their shop to a direct competitor would result in the cancellation of the dealer agreement. It was Mike’s which screwed over their customers as well as assisted in the deterioration of the local bike shop model. It is almost impossible for a locally owned bike shop to compete against a factory store, access to credit, training, marketing as well as preferential pricing give huge advantages to the corporate shops. The real disappointment should be with Pons as well as Mike’s.
Likes For Atlas Shrugged:
#47
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,636
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4735 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
Not sure why the hate for Specialized. Mikes was a dealer for Specialized and must have known selling their shop to a direct competitor would result in the cancellation of the dealer agreement. It was Mike’s which screwed over their customers as well as assisted in the deterioration of the local bike shop model. It is almost impossible for a locally owned bike shop to compete against a factory store, access to credit, training, marketing as well as preferential pricing give huge advantages to the corporate shops. The real disappointment should be with Pons as well as Mike’s.
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,659
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1248 Post(s)
Liked 1,323 Times
in
674 Posts
Regardless, either Mikes is a dealer or not and unfortunately Mikes in conjunction with Pons knowingly put themselves in a situation to have their dealer agreement terminated. I am sure Pons did some fancy math and guessed how many of those on the wait list could be converted to their products and Specialized will retain some as well through their existing dealer network. It’s like someone cheating on their spouse then blaming the faithful partner for breaking up the family.
#49
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,636
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4735 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
Regardless, either Mikes is a dealer or not and unfortunately Mikes in conjunction with Pons knowingly put themselves in a situation to have their dealer agreement terminated. I am sure Pons did some fancy math and guessed how many of those on the wait list could be converted to their products and Specialized will retain some as well through their existing dealer network. It’s like someone cheating on their spouse then blaming the faithful partner for breaking up the family.
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,016
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 923 Times
in
569 Posts
Reporting from Bicycle Retailer about the sale of Mike's
UPDATED: Bay Area retail powerhouse Mike's Bikes sold to Pon Group, the owner of Santa Cruz and Cervelo | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
The new owner of Mike's
Pon Bike - We are one of the top five players in the global bicycle industry
UPDATED: Bay Area retail powerhouse Mike's Bikes sold to Pon Group, the owner of Santa Cruz and Cervelo | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
The new owner of Mike's
Pon Bike - We are one of the top five players in the global bicycle industry
From the article:
"Nothing is going to change around here. They like who we are and what we are and our culture and that's what they want," Martin said on the video. "If we didn't tell anybody, no one would know the difference."
hmm...