Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Centering Campagnolo Record brakes

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Centering Campagnolo Record brakes

Old 09-19-23, 06:37 AM
  #1  
tiger1964 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tiger1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,372

Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 948 Post(s)
Liked 585 Times in 384 Posts
Centering Campagnolo Record brakes

I have a few sets of these and I find one thing irritating. They included narrow wrench flats (13mm?) on the base of the center bolt, so that implies you can hold the brake centered while tightening it down. Fine on the back (as I have some offset cone wrenches) but, in the front, how do you get at it? From above, invariably the headset is in the way and, below, the wheel. I was trying to visualize some convolutedly-bent wrench to get in there but ​​​​​​​ ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ ​​​​​​​. Alternatively, I imagine some gauge to attach to the fork blades to act as an indicator of where "centered" is while the wheel is out. Or is there something I am missing?
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.


tiger1964 is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 06:46 AM
  #2  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 8,755

Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2283 Post(s)
Liked 4,614 Times in 1,681 Posts
I can normally get one of my thin hub wrenches in there from up top to hold it. The thin wrenches I use on the cones of the hubs.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 06:46 AM
  #3  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,830
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1082 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,258 Times in 747 Posts
Method a: Park brake spanner; flats are at 90 degrees to the length of the stamping.

Method b: loosen fixing bolt, squeeze brake HARD, tighten fixing nut enough to hold that position but not so much that the inner arm moves; release the brake and hold inner arm so it does not move while you fully tighten the nut.
oneclick is offline  
Likes For oneclick:
Old 09-19-23, 06:49 AM
  #4  
satbuilder 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 1,513

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked 190 Times in 100 Posts
This might help for centering once the brakes are installed:

Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - Centering side-pull brakes
satbuilder is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 06:56 AM
  #5  
P!N20
Senior Member
 
P!N20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wurundjeri Country
Posts: 2,421
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1063 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 902 Posts
You can throw a couple of spacers between the fork crown and caliper to get access to the flats as long as you have enough thread to engage the nut.

P!N20 is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 07:44 AM
  #6  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,286
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3434 Post(s)
Liked 2,775 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by tiger1964
I have a few sets of these and I find one thing irritating. They included narrow wrench flats (13mm?) on the base of the center bolt, so that implies you can hold the brake centered while tightening it down. Fine on the back (as I have some offset cone wrenches) but, in the front, how do you get at it? From above, invariably the headset is in the way and, below, the wheel. I was trying to visualize some convolutedly-bent wrench to get in there but ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ ​​​​​​​. Alternatively, I imagine some gauge to attach to the fork blades to act as an indicator of where "centered" is while the wheel is out. Or is there something I am missing?
it is the design of the fork crown that can be a problem. On my Colnagos, yep, the 13mm cone wrench flats are not accessible from above. I did try a spacer which worked BUT, interestingly the brake bolt flexed when the brake was applied, with unacceptable performance, this was with a machined 7mm thick spacer.
‘it is a bit of extra effort to center the brake, I am assuming you are using the Campagnolo “star” washer, I forget the original Italian name, rotoden…
a gauge could be devised, I just did not wish to spend the time to design and fabricate one, might start with a unloved front hub.
repechage is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 07:53 AM
  #7  
mpetry912 
aged to perfection
 
mpetry912's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PacNW
Posts: 1,725

Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 797 Post(s)
Liked 1,182 Times in 622 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage
I forget the original Italian name, rotoden…
a gauge could be devised, I just did not wish to spend the time to design and fabricate one, might start with a unloved front hub.
Rondella Dentata according the to the Velo-Retro timeline, introduced in 1971

Velo-Retro: Campagnolo Timeline

/markp
mpetry912 is offline  
Likes For mpetry912:
Old 09-19-23, 07:55 AM
  #8  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,841

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 917 Times in 605 Posts
Originally Posted by satbuilder
This might help for centering once the brakes are installed:

Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - Centering side-pull brakes
That's how I've always done it when brake flats were not accessible or non-existent. We had a punch with a curve ground into it so it fit the spring better than a flat punch or flat blade screwdriver.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Likes For Homebrew01:
Old 09-19-23, 08:32 AM
  #9  
El Chaba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 575
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked 533 Times in 187 Posts
The front brake should *usually* have two rondella dentatas. That usually gives enough space to fit in a cone wrench, admittedly at a bit of an angle….which is fine. You should loosen the bolt when centering so that the teeth from the washers…er…um…rondellas don’t chew up themselves and the mounting surface as the whole assembly is moved in centering. Hold the wrench and tighten the mounting bolt. It’s not unusual for the washers to wear and everything will benefit from replacement at that point.
El Chaba is offline  
Likes For El Chaba:
Old 09-19-23, 09:27 AM
  #10  
Bad Lag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: So Cal, for now
Posts: 2,474

Bikes: 1974 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1104 Post(s)
Liked 793 Times in 452 Posts
If this is really a problem, try accessing the wrench flats from below. The front wheel comes off so easily.

Last time I did it, I lined it up loose and held it in place while tightening the bolt.
Bad Lag is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 09:47 AM
  #11  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,891

Bikes: Paramount, Faggin, Ochsner, Ciocc, Basso

Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1265 Post(s)
Liked 1,760 Times in 1,074 Posts
I have used this wrench for 30+ years to center the brakes. You may need to deflate the tires but the post can be accessed from the bottom when you deflate.

Offset brake wrench from Park inexpensive and the part is OBW-1. You can also remove some of the material from the wrench, so that it just fits into the post flats from the bottom with the tire still inflated.
HTH, Smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Likes For Mad Honk:
Old 09-19-23, 09:49 AM
  #12  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,286
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3434 Post(s)
Liked 2,775 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by Mad Honk
I have used this wrench for 30+ years to center the brakes. You may need to deflate the tires but the post can be accessed from the bottom when you deflate.

Offset brake wrench from Park inexpensive and the part is OBW-1. You can also remove some of the material from the wrench, so that it just fits into the post flats from the bottom with the tire still inflated.
HTH, Smiles, MH
always more tools to buy, very good.
repechage is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 09:50 AM
  #13  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,286
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3434 Post(s)
Liked 2,775 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by El Chaba
The front brake should *usually* have two rondella dentatas. That usually gives enough space to fit in a cone wrench, admittedly at a bit of an angle….which is fine. You should loosen the bolt when centering so that the teeth from the washers…er…um…rondellas don’t chew up themselves and the mounting surface as the whole assembly is moved in centering. Hold the wrench and tighten the mounting bolt. It’s not unusual for the washers to wear and everything will benefit from replacement at that point.
‘not enough on a classic Colnago.
repechage is offline  
Likes For repechage:
Old 09-19-23, 09:51 AM
  #14  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,286
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3434 Post(s)
Liked 2,775 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
That's how I've always done it when brake flats were not accessible or non-existent. We had a punch with a curve ground into it so it fit the spring better than a flat punch or flat blade screwdriver.
‘yeah, that is the Weinmann 500 way. But these are Campagnolo.
repechage is offline  
Likes For repechage:
Old 09-19-23, 10:55 AM
  #15  
SwimmerMike 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 807

Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissim, 1976 Colnago Super. 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked 899 Times in 368 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage
always more tools to buy, very good.
I picked up a batch of tools last month. This was one of the ones in the box. When I saw it I thought "I wish I knew about this tool years ago", it's a great design and got rid of a lot of frustration.
SwimmerMike is offline  
Likes For SwimmerMike:
Old 09-19-23, 11:07 AM
  #16  
Retoocs
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Park OBW-3 tool hooks onto the loops on the spring to turn the caliper.
Retoocs is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 11:27 AM
  #17  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,841

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 917 Times in 605 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage
‘yeah, that is the Weinmann 500 way. But these are Campagnolo.
Yeah, but they're still just bike parts. The concave recess in the punch prevented marring the spring.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 11:44 AM
  #18  
mpetry912 
aged to perfection
 
mpetry912's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PacNW
Posts: 1,725

Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 797 Post(s)
Liked 1,182 Times in 622 Posts
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
Yeah, but they're still just bike parts. The concave recess in the punch prevented marring the spring.
Till the punch slips and you gouge the paint job on your Craigslist Free Spirit, or Confente, Cinelli, Nago, whatever.

/markp
mpetry912 is offline  
Likes For mpetry912:
Old 09-19-23, 02:24 PM
  #19  
tiger1964 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tiger1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,372

Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 948 Post(s)
Liked 585 Times in 384 Posts
Wow, lots of responses, too many to cite all of them!

After posting Post #1, I went for a club ride. At one stop I looked down and the NDS front pad was lightly agains the rim! Fortunately I could loosen the adjusting barrel on-the-fly and continue, and I'll convince myself that the slight drag was why I was struggling a bit in the pace line. This was on my Palo Alto, full Suntour Superbe and, again, with the brakes being somewhat Campy Copies, there are those wrench flats again.

Originally Posted by oneclick
Method a: Park brake spanner; flats are at 90 degrees to the length of the stamping. Method b: loosen fixing bolt, squeeze brake HARD,
OK, heading to finding the correct wrench, meanwhile "b" might help.

Originally Posted by satbuilder
This might help for centering once the brakes are installed: Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - Centering side-pull brakes
I did the tiptop thing countless times in the 1970's, working in bike shops -- but wrench flats are taunting me.

Originally Posted by P!N20
You can throw a couple of spacers between the fork crown and caliper to get access to the flats as long as you have enough thread to engage the nut.
Hmm, I wonder if that would negate the benefits of the Campy Magic Washers.

Originally Posted by Mad Honk
I have used this wrench for 30+ years to center the brakes. You may need to deflate the tires but the post can be accessed from the bottom when you deflate. Offset brake wrench from Park inexpensive and the part is OBW-1. You can also remove some of the material from the wrench, so that it just fits into the post flats from the bottom with the tire still inflated.
HTH, Smiles, MH
Deflate! Brilliant! Anyway, apparently OWB-1 is no longer offered but I found one just now on eBay, so I bought it.

Originally Posted by Retoocs
Park OBW-3 tool hooks onto the loops on the spring to turn the caliper.
I found OBW-3, and apparently the wrench end is 14mm. I just checked and both the Campy and the Suntour are 13mm. There's an OBW-4 with four ends and I could get one and cut off the parts not needed to get more clearance.
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.


tiger1964 is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 08:24 PM
  #20  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,875

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3547 Post(s)
Liked 3,290 Times in 1,883 Posts
Originally Posted by tiger1964
I have a few sets of these and I find one thing irritating. They included narrow wrench flats (13mm?) on the base of the center bolt, so that implies you can hold the brake centered while tightening it down. Fine on the back (as I have some offset cone wrenches) but, in the front, how do you get at it? From above, invariably the headset is in the way and, below, the wheel. I was trying to visualize some convolutedly-bent wrench to get in there but ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ ​​​​​​​. Alternatively, I imagine some gauge to attach to the fork blades to act as an indicator of where "centered" is while the wheel is out. Or is there something I am missing?
Campagnolo provided two star washers for the front caliper to move the centering flats out far enough for a 13mm cone wrench to reach them.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Likes For JohnDThompson:
Old 09-20-23, 04:16 PM
  #21  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,847

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1850 Post(s)
Liked 653 Times in 497 Posts
Originally Posted by mpetry912
Rondella Dentata according the to the Velo-Retro timeline, introduced in 1971

Velo-Retro: Campagnolo Timeline

/markp
I suspect that translates to "toothy round thing."
Road Fan is offline  
Likes For Road Fan:
Old 09-20-23, 06:40 PM
  #22  
SurferRosa
señor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 8,742

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3833 Post(s)
Liked 6,404 Times in 3,166 Posts
Originally Posted by tiger1964
There's thr OBW-4 with four ends, and I could get one and cut off the parts not needed to get more clearance.
That's the tool I use to center many a caliper, Campy or not. And haven't ever needed to customize it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124889166994

​​​​​
SurferRosa is online now  
Old 09-20-23, 07:22 PM
  #23  
sced
South Carolina Ed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Greer, SC
Posts: 3,851

Bikes: Holdsworth custom, Macario Pro, Ciocc San Cristobal, Viner Nemo, Cyfac Le Mythique, Giant TCR, Tommasso Mondial, Cyfac Etoile

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 326 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times in 121 Posts
Originally Posted by jamesdak
I can normally get one of my thin hub wrenches in there from up top to hold it. The thin wrenches I use on the cones of the hubs.
I do this too. Quick and easy.
sced is offline  
Old 09-20-23, 09:25 PM
  #24  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,345
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 840 Post(s)
Liked 2,127 Times in 1,209 Posts
I use a cone wrench and that works. I don’t have one of the 90 degree offset type , just the regular Campagnolo ones. Make sure the wrench is held firmly when tightening the nut on the other end . Work the brakes with the lever a few times firmly before taking the bike off the stand to make sure they modulate evenly.
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 09-20-23, 09:51 PM
  #25  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,286
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3434 Post(s)
Liked 2,775 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Campagnolo provided two star washers for the front caliper to move the centering flats out far enough for a 13mm cone wrench to reach them.
not enough spacing forward for a 70’s Colnago Super. On a Fischer crown or twin plate crown Masi, no problemo. Those crowns employ the shallow saddle washer to present a flat surface to the brake.
‘Colnago used a crown that presents a flat face, good, but the forward face of the crown is too close to the steering axis.
repechage is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.