oldmuthariley

Hi all,
i had this frame / forks restored by a company in the UK - it's reynolds 653.



On return a seriously IRRITATING issue has arisen.
There seems to be a metallic object rattling around in the top tube - problem is i've looked in the frame and there's no entry / exit hole to the tube.
Do you think this could have happened when it was baked in the oven? is it internal corrosion? and ideas or solutions to this minor but highly IRRITATING conundrum?

The other issues is why am i losing hair on my head when it grows more rapidly on my eyebrows /ears etc etc?

bbattle

There should be at least small vent holes at either end of the top tube. I'm guessing small flakes of rust have stuck together to make a ball large enough to annoy you.

Nice looking frame. Head tube seems considerably steeper than the downtube; that says "not Italian" to me.

Italuminium

If the frame was pinned during construction, the pin sometimes works itself loose in the tube. I guess the solution is the same as with your "headset": Deal with it .

The frame looks awesome though, happy riding none the less.

miamijim

There must be a vent hole....did you chech inside the head tube? Perhaps it was covered over during the resto process. The fix is easy, tip the frame so the loose piece slides to the end with the vent hole then squezze some glue like material into the tube.

Elev12k

A rust prevention product like FluidFilm AS-R oil will for sure also eliminate the rattling around of particles.

tugrul

Take one of those small rare earth magnets and capture the loose piece

Chris_in_Miami

Not to discount the possibility of rust in a frame living in the UK, but it's also possible that a blob of brazing filler that seeped past the joint during construction has broken loose.

robatsu

I've had this on several frames, it isn't uncommon at all, usually a blob of brazing slag inside one of the stays. Nobody every notices it until their frames are stripped down and they can pick them up, turn them sideways, etc.

If you build your frame back up, you will never notice this, largely because you will never be climbing a hill at such an angle.

Again, I've had a number of frames w/the same and never once did I ever hear anything when built up as cycles.

oldmuthariley

You're right! after taking off the forks i found the hole - unfortunately on closer inspection i also found two minute holes (looked like air bubbles) on the underside of the offside chainstay by the bottom bracket. I got a needle and HORROR! it went straight through both holes into the tube.
I know 653 is thin tubing but this doesn't look good.......
I'm going to take it down to a renowned restorer in Liverpool to ask them to give me the diagnosis/prognosis (not the people who "restored" the frame)
Oh dear....

realestvin7

Hope it turns out alright.

gaucho777 

My guess is those holes in the stays are also vent holes that were covered over by the respray, and you simply re-opened them. Pics?

RobbieTunes

And it's going grey in some places it probably shouldn't......
It's hard to explain it isn't an out-of-control cobweb....

cudak888 

+1.

-Kurt

oldmuthariley

Here's a pic of the 2 holes - they seem to be in an odd place for vent holes and only on one stay.
apologies for the poor picture quality !

Michael Angelo 

Not good.

Chris_in_Miami

I agree that it looks terminal. Can you tell how thin the metal is at the edge of the hole? A paper-thin edge would be a good indicator of a rust hole, vs. a thick edge for a drilled hole.

oldmuthariley

i think the restorers shot blasted the frame (which i didn't think was a good idea for thin walled tubing) and possibly this is a result of that process?
The frame is going to be looked at in the next few days so hopefully i'll find out what's happened..

cudak888 

Concur - not what I was expecting.

That said, if the tubing is that thin, you should be able to crush it with your fingers - not that I necessarily suggest it.

-Kurt

Lenton58 

That's a real shame and I empathize hugely if it turns out for the worst. But — and I could be wrong — Reynolds 653 may allow for a frame builder to apply enough heat in order to "unhinge" the lugs and head tube tube ... and and then to braze in a new one. Of course that will put paid to the restored finish. And, of course the rest of the frame has to be examined in light of current suspicions. Best of luck!

cudak888 

That would be because 653 requires silver soldering, IIRC.

-Kurt

gaucho777 

I retract my supposition re drain holes. Not what I was expecting either. Good luck & hoping for the best.

oldmuthariley

Well , some updates:

The guys i took it to had a look so here is the bad news and the good news:

BAD NEWS

He said that the two holes are rust however the inside of the tubes seem clean enough - he doesn't think it's terminal but can only really tell when they get all the paint off the frame...
So it will need stripping, repairing and a new respray
Not sure if they can get out the bit rattling but will give it a go.

GOOD NEWS

Even if there appears to be more corrosion it can be filled with brass and made good (no new tubes needed)
The previous "restorers" left the top tube uneven - there are some small areas that need filling and sanding
to make it totally smooth again which the new guys can do.

I get to choose a brand new paint scheme - i'm not going for the red and white - i was thinking another colour with
all the lugwork painted a contrast colour. Any suggestions as to what colour?

I'm also going to get the fork column changed to threadless as i have a lovely handmade Kelly ahead stem that i'll
get painted to match the frame......

However this is all going to cost... i'm waiting to see what the quote is to get this done.

EVEN BETTER NEWS

The new guys are called C&G Finishes in Liverpool, merseyside. UK.
I got speaking to a guy, Nathan, who showed me some of the frames hanging up in the front room (there were around 20 or so) fully restored Lemond road frames, and about 8 HETCHINS!!
C&G paint all the new (and most of the old) Hetchins that are currently being manafactured - they all had curly stays and chrome lugwork and were being prepared to be sent off to Japan and the USA.
what a find!! - these guys are obviosly top quality - next time i'm down there i'll ask if i can take some pictures - it was AMAZING!!!

oldmuthariley

after a lot of shaking, rattling and rolling the pesky thing(s) fell out.
Looked like black paste with metallic bits in it - rabbit dropping size......

zandoval 

Great thread - I am going out into the garage to take another look at a PR-10 I have been working on...

oldmuthariley

here are the pesky culprits!