hybridbkrdr

OK I'll try not to annoy you with too many questions but I was looking at a frame by State Bicycle and was wondering what you'd think about the same type of frame but in aluminum.
https://www.statebicycle.com/collect...t-pacific-gold
It says it has clearance for 45c in 700c and 50c (or 2 inches) in 650b.

I have 2 questions about this:
1. Would you prefer the same clearance or clearance for 2.4" tires in 650b?
2. Would you prefer disc-only with the option of using large caliper brakes or a model with V-brakes bosses that you can remove and replace with a plug and disc brake adapters at the same time?

msu2001la

Is this really an option? I don't see this on the website but am curious about it - particularly the "disc brake adapters" part.

Eric F 

It's your bike. Only your opinion matters.

hybridbkrdr

My description wasn't good enough I guess. I meant a frame that already has holes for disc brakes but also compatible with V-brakes. It's been done before on mountain bikes but I mean where you could just plug the area where the V-brakes are.

I didn't really want to talk about "my bike". I meant if I make enough money to start a bike company it would be to find out what frames people like. I'd want external cabling for sure.

msu2001la

Oh, sorry - I thought you were talking specifically about a frame that State was selling, which seemed unusual so I was hoping to find it online.

My own opinion here (and I'm not trying to hijack the thread on this topic) is that I don't understand why anyone would run v-brakes on a frame that was also designed to accommodate discs. This seems like a conversation that would've happened 10 years ago.

shelbyfv

If you are planning to have a batch of frames built you should contact the owner of Black Mtn Cycles. Link He has been doing this for years. I think you'll find it hard to sell bikes that don't adhere to current standards. Flat mount discs, 100/142 through axle and threaded bb at a minimum. Not to say there is no place for other stuff, just that few shopping for inexpensive new frames would be interested. Of course if you are just noodling and not really in a position to do this it could all be different a few years down the road. Probably best to get the finances worked out before you settle on bike specs.

CrimsonEclipse

I thought you were offer me a free frame.

You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir. Bravo!

RB1-luvr

I bought an aluminum frame from Nashbar a long time ago that has bosses for disc and v brakes. I don't love seeing the unused v-brake bosses sitting there, even with the post removed.

alcjphil

Is there something specific about this frame that interests you? Designing an aluminum frame would make it into a somewhat different bike. Is it the tire clearance that you find interesting? My Canyon Grizl has room for 700 x 50 tires, no idea what could be possible with 650b nor do I care. It looks like a sort of gravel/all road/ adventure bike that you may be looking for. If that is what interests you, you might try talking to the people at T-Lab bikes conveniently located closer to home for you
https://t-lab-bikes.com/en-ca
Keep in mind that prices are in Canadian mini dollars

mstateglfr 

1- no I would not want this in 2.4" 650b. Its an all road bike frame, it isnt a mountain bike frame. 700x45 is wide enough for me to do anything I want on a drop bar bike.
2- I dont understand this. If its disc only, then there cant be an option to use caliper brakes.

msu2001la

Yeah, that one was hurting my brain a little bit too. I think the OP means larger rotors, not calipers? Most frames can work with 140mm or 160mm rotors by just using an adapter. I'm not sure anyone buying a frame like this would want 180mm.

Eric F 

I get it now. You want opinions from potential customers...

So far, none of what you have said interests me.

- I highly prefer carbon fiber over metals for frame material.
- I don't have an interest in bikes with 650b tires.
- Based on current technology, I wouldn't buy a new bike that didn't have disc brakes. An option for v-brakes on the same bike is of zero interest to me, and would be a turn-off.
- Yes, internal cable routing is a maintenance pain, but it also protects most of the length of hydraulic brake lines. Personally, I prefer the look of hidden housing and hoses.

All that said, those are just my opinions. They are neither more or less important than anyone else's.

msu2001la

On the topic of cable routing, it's 2023. I'm going to run hydro discs, and externally routed hydro disc brake hoses look a bit silly. I would much prefer these to be routed inside the frame, though routing through the stem/headset isn't necessary.

As for shift cables, my next drivetrain is likely to be electronic. I'd want a frame that has Di2 routing in mind, and I wouldn't want a frame that has a bunch of bosses welded on for external shift cables.

I also have zero interest in 650b wheels on a drop-bar bike.

unterhausen

Nowadays, dual brake mounting options is the province of low-end hybrids. Either do one brake mount or the other

msu2001la

Do you have examples of these bikes? This dual-mounting option is also what the OP alluded to, and I'm curious to see an example and somewhat skeptical that this setup actually exists in mass production.

I scrolled a few major manufacturer websites (Trek and Giant) and it looks like the rim and disc versions of their entry-level bikes all seem to use different frames for each version, so the disc version can only run discs, the rim version can only run rim brakes, etc.

unterhausen

I'm trying to remember where I recently saw it on a new bike. Maybe at a big box store? I recall being a bit surprised. But there are still hybrids that come with vee brakes. Back when that was common, they often had disc brake mounts too.

Eric F 

Less so these days. When disc brakes for MTBs were still fairly new (10-ish years ago), I recall bikes with both mounts.

Shadco 

Ummm

No.

.

Maelochs

As far as it goes .... an aluminum frame with a sturdy carbon fork which could accept 650b and 700c is a great idea ... I think there are probably companies building them already. Some forks have adjustable dropouts so that the bike's geometry stays the same with 700c and 650B wheels which i would find essential.

As for brakes, I see no reason to use V-brakes ... if I didn't want hydro discs I would just use mechanical discs. I mean, if the fork is already designed for discs there wouldn't be a lot of gain by using V-brakes that I can see, and cable discs work well in all environments and are a simple as V-brakes.

My question might be ... what would this frame be designed to do? Arte we talking road-bike geometry, gravel bike geometry? There is a bunch of great gravel within a hundred miles of me but I am not going to drive two hours to ride my bike often. It might make a great tourer or bikepacking bike, but I am covered on those fronts already. As for road riding,unless I was going to do urban commuting again, all that tire width would be wasted.

If you are planning to mimic the frame shown but in aluminum with a CF fork .... yeah, I actually really like the frame but have no use for another steel bike. My questions would be, how much will the frame weigh and who will design it? You cannot just swap in Al tubes for steel, and as far as I know Al might need heat-treating .... so does whoever is building this frame for you have a giant oven?

If you are giving away the frame for testing .... I unfortunately cannot afford to build another bike right now---or I can but choose not to, because I have built or bought enough bikes to meet my needs. If however, you are looking to hire people to build and test the bike, message me and we will work out the parts and labor and wages, and I will get right on it if we can reach a deal.

Nyah

If it has QR-skewers but doesn't facilitate rim-brakes, then, No, I would never be interested. If you want to facilitate disc brakes only, then do the right thing and design the frame/fork for thru-axles.

msu2001la

There are definitely still some hybrids on the market with V brakes. Trek and Giant both have these on their websites, I would imagine all of the big manufacturers sell v-brake hybrids as a price leader - they appear to be among the cheapest bikes these companies sell.

My point is that Trek and Giant aren't making these frames with "dual mounting" options. Trek's FX-1 is rim-brake only, and the FX-1 disc is disc-brake only. Both frames use 135mm QR so I assume it's identical otherwise, but I don't see any "dual mounting" options for brakes.

Maelochs

So ... @hybridbkrdr .... what are you actually planning here?

hybridbkrdr

Well, there's two reasons. First, if you replace the wheels, saddle, pedals, bars etc. on a bike and want to transfer parts to another frame so you can sell a complete bike, a frameset costing maybe $250 would be ideal. I found the $100 Nashbar frames almost "too cheap" in the sense that some eyelet holes were either not threaded or would easily "spin out" and lose their grip. I find the Surly Bridge Club way too expensive.

Second, I'm not sure what I really want really exists. I mean when you look at the 650b hybrids with 2 inch tires, some have very wide handlebars with short stems. I'm pretty sure I know what that means, it's likely mountain bike geometry, not a "real" hybrid. I'd also like the frame to have front and rear eyelets for front and rear racks.

What I meant by disc brakes but also take caliper brakes is that if the holes on the frameset line up with the kind of caliper reach you need for a 584mm rim then large caliper brakes could be an option.

I figure a model with V-brakes would be a niche model so if I went ahead with this it would only be if a disc model would succeed. Anyway, I'd have to wait for at least a year to do anything. But eventually I may do something because I'm a bit fed up with the bike industry insisting on hidden cables. I can stand things like disc brakes etc. but when they push us that far in one weird direction, that's it.

Maelochs

You can pretty easily rig cable stops and run the cables any way you like.

If you want a frame for a bike you plan to sell, what does it matter if You like the frame. it is not for you.

If you want a frame for yourself then decide what brakes you want. Most forks either have a hole or could be safely drilled for a brake caliper. The tough part is the brake bridge ... either it is there or not.

I am sorry but what you are seeking is still not clear to me. If you bought a frame and a bike and plan to swap parts, then the frame would need to meet the needs of others ... Not yourself. Probably there is not a huge market for the kind of hybrid you personally seek, based on the fact that you cannot find one---if there was a sizeable market, companies would sell those bikes ... it is sort of what they do.

Also, you seem to be assuming that any bike with wide flat bars has MTB geometry .... why not actually read the geometry charts and see? And if that is what sells, then that would be the kind of frame to buy and build with your leftover parts .... because it is what many people actually want. If those frames do not have whatever kind of geometry you dislike ... then there is even less problem.

So ... is this frame for you, or for sale? Is it for sale as a bike built up with taken-off parts from your new build? Are you planning to make a lot of these frames?

unterhausen

I guarantee I haven't been in a Giant or Trek store for at least 3 years, so I guarantee it wasn't one of those. There are a couple of schwinn models that have a dual braking option fork, but the frame is vee brake only. In any event, the last production bike in history with dual brake options will be a cheap hybrid. Unles the OP makes the last one, who knows? I stick by my comment that the OP shouldn't make a dual vee/disc option because it would make it look cheap.