Rarest of 'em all Colnago super or someone really took faking seriously?
04-21-23, 09:41 AM
#1
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Rarest of 'em all Colnago super or someone really took faking seriously?
I know what many here will think, "we've seen plenty of the wrap-around stayed Nonagos, nothing new." yepp, I saw some as well. And I used to joke about it, that in Belgium everything is a Colnago Super (remember the Gios I posted, labeled as one). But this looks somehow too well made, not just a whatever cellar zombie with a Super decal.
So, what is the verdict on this? Fake with attention to some but not all details?
So, what is the verdict on this? Fake with attention to some but not all details?
04-21-23, 09:45 AM
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I know what many here will think, "we've seen plenty of the wrap-around stayed Nonagos, nothing new." yepp, I saw some as well. And I used to joke about it, that in Belgium everything is a Colnago Super (remember the Gios I posted, labeled as one). But this looks somehow too well made, not just a whatever cellar zombie with a Super decal.
So, what is the verdict on this? Fake with attention to some but not all details?
So, what is the verdict on this? Fake with attention to some but not all details?
regarding Colnago...
https://charliecycles54.com/2023/04/...a-design-week/
Last edited by cb400bill; 04-26-23 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Removed most pics
04-21-23, 10:03 AM
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Pro tip: one set of pics on the first page of a thread is always enough.
04-21-23, 10:19 AM
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I don't think it is in rough enough shape.
regarding Colnago...
https://charliecycles54.com/2023/04/...a-design-week/
regarding Colnago...
https://charliecycles54.com/2023/04/...a-design-week/
Charlicycles54?
I see you are a man of culture as well.... his pictures and the bikes he photographed are really top ones.Too bad I'm far from there, by the time, I could make the trip to BE to pick the frame and fly over to the event to show up with it, I might be late....
04-21-23, 10:31 AM
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I know what many here will think, "we've seen plenty of the wrap-around stayed Nonagos, nothing new." yepp, I saw some as well. And I used to joke about it, that in Belgium everything is a Colnago Super (remember the Gios I posted, labeled as one). But this looks somehow too well made, not just a whatever cellar zombie with a Super decal.
So, what is the verdict on this? Fake with attention to some but not all details?
So, what is the verdict on this? Fake with attention to some but not all details?
Last edited by cb400bill; 04-26-23 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Deleted most pics
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04-21-23, 10:33 AM
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I guess, page count will rise to 100 before view count reaches 20. Nlerner would love it.
04-21-23, 10:35 AM
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***edit I think it was on friend's super 91'***
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04-21-23, 10:53 AM
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Hazying
(Read that somewhere, or recalling a conversation, or perhaps heard it in the Graybar Hotel lobby?)
Last edited by cb400bill; 04-26-23 at 12:06 PM. Reason: removed most pics
04-21-23, 10:55 AM
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...the chroming on the fork looks like genuine Colnago chrome.
...the chroming on the fork looks like genuine Colnago chrome.
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04-21-23, 11:06 AM
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Okay, I think it is a Super '91, they came in various shapes, including wrap-around stays. Every day I learn something (when not shufflin'). Thanks for all the input and pictures!
Not the one my friend bought, just rando fwom the web.
Not the one my friend bought, just rando fwom the web.
04-21-23, 11:50 AM
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04-21-23, 01:13 PM
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I understood there was a cheaper model, maybe even made outside the factory under license called the Colnago Sport.
They also made a lady's version with a non-parallel top tube.
Nobody is going to fake dropouts.
They also made a lady's version with a non-parallel top tube.
Nobody is going to fake dropouts.
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04-23-23, 03:56 AM
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Does the tubing decal look like this?
If it does it may be a Colnago Super Sprint. I think the Super Sprints evolved from the Colnago International model around 1988 and did further evolve to use Colnago Master head tube lugs. I have seen them using chromed lugs from lesser Master models such as the Conic SLX but I have not come across a Super Sprint using the higher end Master head tube lugs with the 'apostrophe' cutouts like your frame has. Perhaps your frame was a later model frame (e.g. 1990/91/91/92 - I'm not sure just how long the Super Sprint was in production?) when and if the beautiful Master lug with the 'apostrophe' cutouts were used? The Super Sprint model seat tube lugs all seemed to lack any Colnago branding and the stays could semi-wrap around the lug.
The Super sprints originally used Columbus SL tubing but did 'progress' to use a mixture of Columbus SL and Columbus Cromor. I think the rear triangle was Columbus Cromor. This could have been done to keep costs down as the Cromor tubes were seamed and cheaper to make.
In 'Colnago World' there are no hard and fast rules regarding frames especially if a contracted frame shop may have actually built this frame. It's a very interesting frame (a little unusual) and would be deserving of a little love. Best of luck with it.
Then again - the frame you show - the 1991 Super - does look a lot like your frame. I wonder if it is actually a Super Sprint?
If it does it may be a Colnago Super Sprint. I think the Super Sprints evolved from the Colnago International model around 1988 and did further evolve to use Colnago Master head tube lugs. I have seen them using chromed lugs from lesser Master models such as the Conic SLX but I have not come across a Super Sprint using the higher end Master head tube lugs with the 'apostrophe' cutouts like your frame has. Perhaps your frame was a later model frame (e.g. 1990/91/91/92 - I'm not sure just how long the Super Sprint was in production?) when and if the beautiful Master lug with the 'apostrophe' cutouts were used? The Super Sprint model seat tube lugs all seemed to lack any Colnago branding and the stays could semi-wrap around the lug.
The Super sprints originally used Columbus SL tubing but did 'progress' to use a mixture of Columbus SL and Columbus Cromor. I think the rear triangle was Columbus Cromor. This could have been done to keep costs down as the Cromor tubes were seamed and cheaper to make.
In 'Colnago World' there are no hard and fast rules regarding frames especially if a contracted frame shop may have actually built this frame. It's a very interesting frame (a little unusual) and would be deserving of a little love. Best of luck with it.
Then again - the frame you show - the 1991 Super - does look a lot like your frame. I wonder if it is actually a Super Sprint?
Last edited by Gary Fountain; 04-23-23 at 04:11 AM.
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04-23-23, 01:13 PM
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Hi Gary Fountain oddly I came to write the same, that it can also be a Super Sprint, after I was searching for something else and bumped into photos of Sprints. Totally forgot about their existence, and definitely what set them apart from the rest (was never interested either to be honest).
Still it's an either/or game I think, if Colnago Just called things differently, or were they really that much different. Just like Columbus changed Matrix to Cromor, but does anybody know, if it was a rebranding or something really changed?
Colnagos also came in many shapes and details even within a certain model, just the regular "Sergio did what he had the mood to do on a rainy Monday" thing I guess.
The tubing decal points to Sprint as you say, at least it is definitely not the purple framed Super 91 one, whereas the TT RB cable entering from below and exiting on top is more often seen on the 91's. So maybe its the Super Sprint 90+ 1/2.
Unfortunately the frame is not mine, it is for sale for less than taking a deep breath, I'm just not sure if I want to deal with it knowing the end result most likely be stripped and overpainted chromes. And might also be small as well, so I don't know it yet.
Still it's an either/or game I think, if Colnago Just called things differently, or were they really that much different. Just like Columbus changed Matrix to Cromor, but does anybody know, if it was a rebranding or something really changed?
Colnagos also came in many shapes and details even within a certain model, just the regular "Sergio did what he had the mood to do on a rainy Monday" thing I guess.
The tubing decal points to Sprint as you say, at least it is definitely not the purple framed Super 91 one, whereas the TT RB cable entering from below and exiting on top is more often seen on the 91's. So maybe its the Super Sprint 90+ 1/2.
Unfortunately the frame is not mine, it is for sale for less than taking a deep breath, I'm just not sure if I want to deal with it knowing the end result most likely be stripped and overpainted chromes. And might also be small as well, so I don't know it yet.
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04-23-23, 02:06 PM
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Whatever it is, its 'patina' is not worth preserving, imo.
04-24-23, 02:57 AM
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While I'm not dying to get this, I have too many past experiences of being too quick stamping things with the "not worthy" stamp, then a few years fly on, even low end common models value rise to the sky, sure, now every now and then man can find steel Colnagos for cheap, but it won't always be like that. Time will tell if this will be an impulse buy, or a missed out one.
04-24-23, 09:00 AM
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While I'm not dying to get this, I have too many past experiences of being too quick stamping things with the "not worthy" stamp, then a few years fly on, even low end common models value rise to the sky, sure, now every now and then man can find steel Colnagos for cheap, but it won't always be like that. Time will tell if this will be an impulse buy, or a missed out one.
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04-24-23, 09:19 AM
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04-24-23, 10:42 AM
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It was a Colnago until they did that thing with the bars flipped up with the brake levers on the drops. It’s now a Sears Free Spirit.
Apologies for not including OP pics, I’m in a hurry.
Apologies for not including OP pics, I’m in a hurry.
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
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04-24-23, 10:51 AM
#21
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Either way its a long way for this one.
04-25-23, 01:43 AM
#22
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All seems te be there, those lugs with clovers are hard to fake ... too bad the picture of the underside of the BB shell is a bit dark, can't make anything on that.
Did you end up buying it? It certainly is a nice (outside) wall hanger
Did you end up buying it? It certainly is a nice (outside) wall hanger
04-25-23, 04:13 AM
#23
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Time Behind Bars
Bike appears to have spent some time submerged in a canal? Maybe an escape attempt gone wrong?
BTW, those head lug cutouts are not "tear drops" but "ears" as in this Colnago Technos:
verktyg
BTW, those head lug cutouts are not "tear drops" but "ears" as in this Colnago Technos:
verktyg
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Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
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04-26-23, 10:30 AM
#24
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Unfortunately, the guy changed to "not shipping" so I have no chance, but it would have been a "fun" project although with loads of derusting. So if anyone is in BE, its up for 100EUR. I'm not affiliated, and I'm not selling it.
04-26-23, 10:40 AM
#25
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Hi Lattz the decals have to be printed yet, had no time for them.
But where in Belgium is this frame? I live near the border so I might have a look for you. Could you PM me a link perhaps?
But where in Belgium is this frame? I live near the border so I might have a look for you. Could you PM me a link perhaps?