SB1501

Hi forum, I was looking at some rather expensive Tern Electric Cargo bikes - £5,000 or so they run for the one you want. The only way I can realistically justify that is to consider getting rid of my car. It's a crazy idea - but I live 6 miles from the city, only 1.7 of that is a scary no-cycle path footpath section so realistically, other than the weather, nothing is stopping me. And thankfully we don't get the same extremity of weather as some folks around the world here in NI.

The below is fascinating. It's what I spent in 2022 (final and complete) plus what I've spent so far this year and what I have in my budget in regards to weekly fuel spend and cost of service parts. Then, next year - which ideally doesn't have any big spends. I'm going to break it down for anyone interested.

I bought the car, a 2018 Toyota Avensis Business Edition. It's a nice - large by UK standards - saloon car, with a small diesel engine (1.6 BMW derived unit shockingly in a Toyota boooo) and on paper, efficient and jumps through all the EU hoops applicable back in 2015. Problem being, it's horsed nearly all of the time to move that car! I get the same fuel economy as a relatives Mazda 6 Sports Tourer with the 2.2 diesel and automatic - and much more luxury / better handling... small engines in big cars that pass lab tests are a false economy. This car drinks fuel and so far I've had to go from filling it up every time fully, to £35 per week - and honestly it's barely enough to get to work, to my girlfriends and the odd supermarket trip in between. Gone are the days where I can go for a drive and enjoy my car for fun :-/

2022 - Bought the car in January. On finance. £217 a month. I was hit with a £1200 deposit requirement which sucked my backup savings quite thin... Then it was fuel. Fuel sky rocketed here last year, going from about £1.30 per litre to £1.89 at its worst in my case.... A massive, unnecessary increase hitting those who don't have the cash to spare most. Last August, I clipped a concrete pillar and needed to get it repaired, that was £600. I took out a credit card to cover this rather than deplete my low saving at the time. Overall £7,869 or £656 per month!!!

2023 - This year in the snow, the car wouldn't start. Recharging the battery a few times also wouldn't cut it. It needed a new battery. I don't like going for the cheapest brands or specs, I tend to go for the best possible. £250 on a Varta AGM battery. I also needed new tyres as all four on mine were cracking at the rear due to age, I went for Michelin Primacy 4 S's - again no compromise on handling and allegedly, A rated for fuel economy - I'd take and try anything to get better fuel economy from this car. Turns out tyres don't work miracles. It's a touch better, but still not enough to make any dent in the below costs. I had everything done according to schedule - gearbox oil changed, coolant changed, brake fluid changed by Toyota. About £50 each and £100 for the gearbox. Overall £6,071 or £506 per month!!!

2024 - So next year, assuming no big unexpected expenses, just servicing (buying the filters and oil from Toyota as I do), and a slight increase in fuel price etc, £5,380 all in. Or £448 per month. This is what really shocked me. I assumed my taste for quality parts and going the extra mile was why it has cost so much, as well as last year, paying the deposit. The real shock was here. Next year, I'm looking at what? A decrease of only £691? No. Just no.

I'm trying to save for a house - deposit nearly there. But I think applying as an individual, every penny I earn and what is left after bills will make a huge difference in what I can be approved for, and how easy I can live financially with it per month, for the next 25-35 years! If I can get by without a car... I should be doing very fine!


Cost of running my 1.6 diesel Toyota Avensis in the UK 2022-2024

SB1501

It won't let me share the screenshot of the table until I've had 10 posts :-/

50PlusCycling

Cars aren’t cheap. Your entire monthly outlay is less than what I pay for a parking spot in Tokyo. I have a 750i, which aren’t cheap in Japan, add annual road tax of $700, biannual inspection which is about $1500, and insurance, which runs about $100 per month. On the other hand, the car has required no repairs (knocks on wood), and has only needed an annual oil change. I don’t drive so much, I filled up the tank a few day’s before Christmas, and I probably won’t have to fill it again until April. I put at least 20km on my bike for every 1km I drive the car. Crazy to see gas in the UK is now significantly higher than in Japan.

JoeyBike

Not sure about the UK, but here in the USofA where my wife and I purchased a house a couple decades ago, there are some tricks we used to cut the payments down to 7 years instead of 15 years without spending one extra cent.

We arranged with the finance company to have them withdraw 1/2 our monthly house note ever 2 weeks, instead of the entire amount once a month. This one trick alone saved us 7 years of interest payments. We had to do this up front, and allow for the finance company to access our account for the auto withdrawals.

At any rate, find a good financial expert on home purchases or at least scour the Internet for things such as this. Obviously if you can afford to add extra money on top of the required amount this will also save tons of money spent on interest. In the US anyway.

Cheers, and good luck!

Reddleman

Yeah, cars in the UK suck your money. I was always broke when I owned one there and things only looked up for me when I didn’t need one for work. You don’t always need an electric cargo bike - a low geared hybrid and maybe a trailer for the supermarket trip can work out well in flatter places. Plus you can always drop the gym membership and save more cash.

If you’re looking for money saving tips by going carfree for your deposit, have a look at the FIRE movement and the writings of Mr Money Mustace online. It’s US-centric but still handy.

NI? Norn Iron? Whereabouts? If you do need a car, you can probably take advantage of airports and tourists to hire one for those rare occasions when you need one. If you live in Belfast, are there any car clubs around? They tend to be in bigger cities. Just because you don’t own a car doesn’t mean you can’t use a car when you need one.

awac

I run a little old Clio 2 diesel. Cheap to run. If I was to go car free I would set up an account with a car rental company so if I had to use a car, all the paperwork was ready. The world needs the human race to go car free, the alternatives need to be in place now, but they are not.

Since you are in NI, have you seen this blog?

The Backwoodsman: Cycling

SB1501

In your case, is the cost of the car for the little use worthwhile? People are saying to me "try your bike idea, but keep your car - you'd be stupid not to". My big objection to that is, even if it sits still, I'm paying finance, insurance, tax monthly for it still. That's hundreds still - so no real money saving. Whereas ditching it completely, is a significant finance improvement.


The standard here for a mortgage is usually 25 years. But it's in the news - more so in England / London - how difficult it's becoming for young people to get on the housing ladder. Particularly those who moved out and rented at university, and now are working and out a massive rent payment monthly and unable to get together a decent deposit.

So 25 years for a mortgage, and what, a 10% deposit? That's what I expected and what my parents did. Now we're looking at 35 years - silly interest rates and they're expecting at least a 15% deposit... As an individual, scraping together a 10% deposit is hard enough. I'm lucky I live at home, I am saving, but sadly even without my car, it wouldn't give me much advantage in terms of affordability for a house. Meeting and going half with a partner, that is pretty much the most likely / realistic one - but of course that in itself is a hell of a thing to sit waiting for I guess. Meet 'the one' tomorrow, but it might take years before you get to move in stage / life binding commitments.

Where we live is pretty hilly. Though most places can be accessed along the River Foyle. It's Londonderry I'm near so opposite ends, but yet Norn Iron! Thankfully I don't need to go to the office very often / can pretty much work remotely. I'll look up the Fire thing. I found that Enterprise the car rental people do a car club. I'm going to trial that out sometime soon to see how useful it is - with this being NI, the demand possibly isn't there for them to have it in full swing as it might be in the Mainland UK but I'll find out!

I took a quick look at the blog. Can't work out where they're based? Going to explore the local Enterprise car club and see if that is practical should I get rid of mine

Reddleman

Check out car hire deals at Londonderry Airport - see what that’s like for one off hires. Car hire costs worldwide are quite high right now due to companies downsizing their fleets during COVID and cars now costing more money new due to chip shortages. For weekends away planned in advance they can be worthwhile. You’ll want to insure your excess separately - annual policies for this are available and can also cover car club excesses too.

Cargo bikes are handy for hauling equipment/shopping/kids but if you don’t need that then a standard ebike with panniers etc will get you around easily and save you quite a few quid. If you’re mainly riding around the flatter bits of town or alternatively can handle the hills through appropriate gearing and strong legs then motor assistance isn’t necessary on the sorts of distances you quoted. Have a look at the Cycle To Work schemes available for a discounted bike through your employer, you pay less as it’s offset against your income tax.

Peddel4pizza

I also worked out the cost of a car, and yes its more comfortable than riding in the rain and the cold, its just too expensive!

Bikerdrummer

I sold my only car 2 weeks ago. Now I just use my Brompton or beat up 80’s mountain bike (if I need to lock up somewhere outside). I also just ordered a tern folding electric bike. Luckily I ordered it now, I think I got one of the last ones available in my area.

I figure between registration, gas, depreciation, insurance, maintenance, and car washers, one year without a car will pay for the bike itself. Then it’s all savings. Uber is easy, I don’t mind the train or bus, and I can bike most of the year. I’m glad to be car free.

sin7

Well, I'm 32 and I have no car and the main reason always was - it eats so much money. Last two years I'm trying slowly to get a driving license but overall cost of having a car only increased so I'm not even sure I will buy one after getting a license. The only reason I wanted a car to have ability to buy a cheaper land on bigger distance from the city that can't be covered by public transport or bicycle easily. And probably the cost will increase even more. Well, in eastern Europe it's possible to live without a car.

GhostRider62

Variable costs on the expensive fuel efficient car is a bit over $1/mi and 30c/mil on the old gas guzzler.

Tires, oil, fuel, brakes, maintenance, and depreciation are a *****

rossiny

Add in the cost of bailing out the car companies, road building, tolls, insurance, gas, upkeep, etc. We forget how much we really pay to drive. Im a pessamist and dont thnk it will change. Its basically fuels our current economic model.

Calsun

Half of the real estate in American cities is devoted to moving, parking, and garaging motor vehicles. That is space not available for productive uses of the land and the expense that was calculated in 1970 by economists was $12,000 per year per vehicle in the city. The taxpayers subsidize the motorists.

rossiny

subsidized by $12,000 per year, per car ??

GhostRider62

With 300,000,000 cars in the USA, $12k per car per year is what......2/3 the Federal budget. Wait, $12,000 in 1970 is worth $8 today. So, now we are talking the entire GDP of the USA to move, park, and garage the cagers.

Calsun

The auto and oil and tire companies in the USA did a great job of buying up all the electric street car lines across the country and then shutting them down and forcing Americans to buy cars after WW II. Even in the past year there have been 13 attempts by cities to add electric light rail service for their people and campaigns funded by the oil companies were successful in killing them.

In the late 1800's there were was such common gridlock with horses and horse drawn carriages that cities first start implementing electric street cars in response. It was very successful and so it spread to every large city in the country. This was not good for the auto and tire and oil industries and so after WW II they conspired to put an end to public transit. OK to subsidize auto parking and roadways but not public transit. Then again, the elites in the overclass benefited from the private use of public resources, as always, but gained nothing from making transportation more efficient and more affordable for Americans and their families.

There is a huge environmental impact from the oil companies and their pollution and contribution to global warming and to air pollution and contamination of drinking water supplies, as well as the taking of 50% of American cities for use by cars instead of people. We now have heat islands that are literally killing people.

Unfortunately most Americans have drunk the Kool-aid and buy into the propaganda of the corporate owned and controlled media, and are too lazy to seek out alternative sources of information.

rossiny

I don't think Americans are lazy. I think theres no alternative to cars right now. It's so ingrained that public transit is just barely usable in cities going into the center at peak hours only. Only if people start dropping dead from air pollution , will the auto industry and airline industry stop being the primary mode of transit.

campfire

It may or may not be worth keeping. If you have doubt, try having both for a few weeks before deciding to sell the car. That would give you a transition period to get used to your new transportation routines.

I'm in a similar spot, and (after a couple of successful months) I now have a car to divest...
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Roughstuff

I was never happier than when I lived in small college towns or similar areas where a car was not necessary. It was like a monthly bomb in my budget had been removed! It is a bit reversed now: I live in a small van, so I have car expenses but no rent.

And of course wile bicycle touring I don't have either. YUMMY!

GhostRider62

Which brand and flavor of Kool-aid are you drinking? You posted the most ridiculous statement......where did you read that?

With 300,000,000 cars in the USA, $12k per car per year is what......2/3 the Federal budget ($3.6T). Wait, $1 in 1970 is worth $8 today. So, now we are talking the entire GDP of the USA to move, park, and garage the cagers.

JoeyBike

Silly golf courses make up the rest.

Minion1

We have a tern cargo bike and love it. We are lucky to live in a small town very adjacent to a larger city, and have 2,200km on it in a year and a half. Not many of our trips with it are longer than 3km, we do school drop offs and pick ups with it, library trips, sports stuff, occasional commute to work, and good weather family ambles. I frequently try and calculate what the brake even point is, not accounting for the relative purchase prices between the bike and a car, it's the ongoing costs that really hammer us for car ownership.
I'm in Australia, and horrifyingly the average weekly expenditure (yes, weekly) is AUD $359 (https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/car-...tatistics.html) although that number includes a car repayment figure of $155; even then, that's around $200 a week for other costs to drive. Aus is a country where people suffer the tyranny of distance, and some people do need to drive a very, very long way regularly but still. So far, not counting the purchase price, our bike has cost us $0 for brake pads, 3 inner tubes, and it is going to need chain replacement soon but not that soon. Holy Moly I'm actually taken aback by that, I hadn't really factored it out that explicitly before.

GhostRider62

No, it is the other half of verdant farmland littered with solar panels that are silly.