indyfabz

*yawn*

WinterCommuter

My understanding is driver (er, door opener; since, most are not technically driving at that point).

fietsbob

Got a lawyer? you sue in court? the judge decides fault, based on the evidence presented..
Opinions expressed on bike forums are not legally binding rulings..


the Dutch Reach , you open the door with the hand furthest from it, the one in the center of the car..

WinterCommuter

Where i live, it is legal for a bicyclist to ride Where they Feel safest. That is, on my commute there is a parking lane immediately parallel to a bike Lane and one or more lanes of traffic parallel to the bike lane. When there are cars actually parked, i ride in the first lane of traffic (not in the bike lane next to parked cars). It’s impossible to tell if a door is about to swing open and how far it will reach with all the darked out windows. This might annoy some drivers, but they can see me and easily avoid me.

Paul Barnard

I would not put myself in the position any of those riders were in.

Paul Barnard

That is not what your cycling law says.

WinterCommuter

Paul are you sure?

see:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.222

specifically, subd 4, (3)

vehicles are clearly included. Perhaps, you object my Language “feels” vs “reasonably necessary”. Avoiding getting killed by a door is “reasonably necessary” to move into a lane of traffic. paul, next time get your facts right before you complain.

Paul Barnard

I had my facts in order. Your law doesn't deal with feelings. It deals with reasonable necessity. Many laws are purposefully written with the "reasonably" qualifier. It may seem like an insignificant difference, but it isn't.

dennis336

Yeah, I mean, accidents happen, but most of the clips in the video were pretty much accidents begging to happen.

walterbyrd

Happened to me. The car was at fault, but I never got a penny out of it.

In my experience, police tend to side with the motorists. They see motorists are people who have something to do, get to work or school, or shop, or whatever. Bicyclists are just playing. Bicyclists are seen as a nuisance, like people skateboarding on the street.

IMO: painting a line alongside parked cars is a crap excuse for a bike line. But, all too often, that is all there is available.

WinterCommuter

either way, it’s rider discretion. The rider makes the call. That’s important point.

Listen, i’m not trying to be arm chair lawyer. I’m a good rider that’s trying to help others be better riders and riding next to parked cars is very, very dangerous. In situations like that, mn state law is quite clear that the rider can leave the bike lane when it’s “reasonable necessary” (which to me seems a lot like when the rider “feels it’s necessary“, but clearly i’m no lawyer because the law doesn’t deal with feelings).

paul, i take it you’re a lawyer or lawyer wanna be. My intent was never to quibble points of law. If you’re interested in helping me be a better rider, i’m very interested. If you’re interested in showing off your legal acumen, find someone else. You’ve forced me to reread a law that i already fully understood. As far as understanding how to be a better rider, you’ve added very little.

mr_bill

You essentially don’t ride around cars, moving or parked.


Sheesh.

-mr. bill

mirfi

Wear this shirt


I have a bright front light on even for day rides.

Daniel4

Let's pose the question another way:

If you get run over, whose fault is it? Cyclist or driver?

No conditions,no "it depends", etc. The OP didn't state any.

Miele Man

Not the same thing at all.

Avoiding getting doored is quite simple if you just stay out of the door zone.

Cheers

mr_bill

The same damned thing.

Avoiding getting run over by motorists is quite simple if you just stay off the road.

Skål!

Flip Flop Rider

It's both group's responsibility to avoid dooring incidents, the rider and and driver. However, one group wants to avoid them at all costs and the other group cares very little, or does it intentionally...so, ultimately it's up to the rider to avoid this

livedarklions

The door zone's connected to the drivers zone,.
The drivers zones connected to the opposite drivers zone,
The opposite drivers zone connected to the other door zone

Dem zones,
Dem zones,
Gonna mess you up
Dem zones,
Dem zones,
Gonna mess you up
Now listen to the honk of the Ford

Clyde1820

And if it were an oncoming car that the parked car's driver doored? Would it be the fault of the oncoming driver for having gotten struck?

Leisesturm

It's threads like this that make A&S legendary among the subforums as a place where angels fear to tread. Seriously, slithering between moving traffic and parked traffic at >10mph? In rain? In snow? At night? But, I wanna talk about bike lanes. I didn't see any in that video. Why is that do you think? I'd like to know just how many fatalities of cyclists riding in bike lanes there were last year? I'd like to know how long it would have taken to compile a similar video of bike lane fails? Some of you seem to have some sort of agenda to make the cycling public fear and eschew 'door zone' bike lanes. Not gonna happen I'm happy to say.

First thing, the vast majority of the cycling public don't lurk here and, second thing, the minute they actually get out there and realize that IN the (not so) deadly (door zone) bike lane that they are much better off than trying to maintain 25mph in the vehicle lane, or dealing with the fallout from not keeping up ... things mainly take care of themselves. How many posts in this thread gave the sage advice "don't ride in the door zone" but failed to suggest an alternative? Too many. I would suggest that the next poster to join the fray, in fact, do just that: suggest an alternative to riding in the 'door zone' that works as well, or better.

Daniel4

Of course it's the same thing. Some people (especially motorists and cyclists who won't ride on the road) would say to avoid getting run over just stay off the road.

And then there's the cop mentioned in another thread " Well, what do you expect?"

Fissile

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but it's my understanding that it's a cager's responsibility to make sure he/she can safely open their car door before doing so. That said, there are always extenuating circumstances. Despite what the law says, and what actually transpired, you've got the issue of the police. DO NOT assume that the police will be fair and impartial when responding to an accident scene. Just the facts that you are on a bike, and wearing cycling clothing will be enough evidence for the police officer to mark you as a minority, a communist, a *****exual, or all of the above.

My two cents:
1) Familiarize yourself with the rules of the road where you are riding...both for bikes and cagers.
2) Get yourself a helmet cam that uploads to the cloud.
3) DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE. If the police get involved say nothing to them besides providing your ID.
4) Do not volunteer any evidence like your helmet cam vid. If the police take it anyway make sure they do so under your protestations.
5) If injured seek medical help immediately.
6) If injured, call a lawyer as soon as practical.
7) DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE.
8) See 3 & 7 above.

livedarklions

Even if you ignore the bike lane issue, you're still right. Any blanket rule of "never do x" is going to be poorly considered unless you can specify the better alternative. You can plan the best possible route ever to avoid door zones and all it takes is one car, with or without flashing blue lights, parked somewhere where you don't expect it and you could be faced with the alternative of the small risk of going through the door zone or the much larger risk of taking a lane on a high mph road.
I do a lot of "exploring" on my bikes, so I'm often riding places where I don't know what to expect in terms of parking patterns. If I'm in a situation where I can safely take the lane to get around parked cars, I'll do it, but if I'm not, I will follow my practice of going through the door zone slow enough that I can see which cars are occupied before I pass them and to minimize the damage if for some reason I actually hit a door (which still hasn't ever happened to me in 45+ years of riding, knock wood).

flangehead

Note taken; my prior post was overly simplistic. Value of the discussion is thinking past our own normal context and practices.

OK, here is an alternative that works better than riding in a door-zone bike lane:

1. See parked cars ahead.
2. Negotiate with traffic (if any) for motor vehicle lane, ending in signaling a lane change. (If negotiations fail, pull into parking spot and wait for a hole in traffic.)
3. Move into lane and pass parked cars.
4. Signal lane change.
5. Return to bike lane.

Clearly, the situation matters. My nearest door-zone bike lane is 30 mph marked, very light traffic, mostly no parked cars, and the alternative above is best for me.

I don't face this situation, but I can imagine with stalled traffic and a door-zone lane, I would proceed slowly watching very carefully because I'd have risk of dooring (and squirting pedestrians and cars nosing out) from both sides, but I can take advantage of moving somewhat relative to the stalled traffic. Though the door-opener might be legally liable, I'm the potential "damaged goods" so I'm going to ride very defensively. And I don't want to hurt a pedestrian, even if they are jaywalking. I don't want anyone to get hurt during my trip.

Heavy 45 mph traffic next to door-zone lane? Haven't done it. I'm a take-the-lane kinda guy because it works very well for me in my normal context, but a situation like that would have me looking for an alternate route. If I had to reach a destination on that road, I'd get as close as possible then take the lane in a break in traffic and "sprint" the block or so required. If no holes I might even use the sidewalk, again, with caution or dismounted (again, depending....)

Of course there are a buncha other situations.. though the span above describes a range of responses from "take-the-lane" to "use door-zone cautiously" to "avoid completely".

Bottom line is, regardless of legal fault, I'm the one who carries the bulk of the physical risk. I'm going to pick an approach that reduces my risk consistent with my destination objective for the situation at hand.

JoeyBike

If you make the decision to venture out into auto traffic on a bicycle the name of the game is "Do what it takes to make it home alive". It really is all on YOU. "Fault" is irrelevant to a dead cyclist.