Swapping old 27 1/4" wheels UKAI to ARAYA - spacer, dishing question
09-27-23, 02:24 PM
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Swapping old 27 1/4" wheels UKAI to ARAYA - spacer, dishing question
Background info (you can skip) I wrecked the front wheel of a beloved bike a while ago, a Fuji Tourer from the 70s. I didn't feel super confident getting a Chinese made replacement from Amazon, so I waited until I could find an era-specific replacement. Recently I found another old Japanese bike in good shape someone was selling cheap so I grabbed it, looking mostly for the front wheel (and other parts and I'll be sure to sell the frame so it doesn't go to waste, feels wrong to cannibalize a bike in such good condition).
The old rims were UKAI made and I'm looking to replace them with the ARAYA wheels. I noticed the araya walls of the rims are level (right angle from the inner/spoke surface) and the bike came with side pull breaks, while the walls of the UKAI comes out at a slight angle which meets the angle of the break pads from the centerpull breaks so I'll be correcting for that with breaks that have adjustable angel washers.
On to the question:
Front wheels-
Old UKAI wheel has a spacing from end of the lock nut to end of locknut.of 94mm. The new ARAYA wheel has a spacing of 98,5-99mm, and it has some washers between the locknut and cone that look like I can probably remove to get closer to 94. The question I have after reading on here is will I have to redish the wheel after? And is it best to add equal spacers to each side or are there other considerations?
Rear wheels-
Don't have the locknut distance measurement on hand of the old UKAI or ARAYA but the ARAYA has a good I think 5mm free space when put in the rear dropouts on my Fuji (into which it's being transplanted). So I have to put some spacers in to not bend the dropouts to force it to fit. The answer to the question of "does it matter if you use any old washer or should you buy bicycle specific spacers" seems to be a mixed bag but if you have tips I'll take it
The issue, from reading, is about where to add the spacers and having to redish after adding new spacers. Is it most appropriate to add to NDS? DS? equally on both sides? Should I measure the distance from the locknut on the DS the old UKAI rim to the inner part of the dropout and replicate that distance on the drive side on the ARAYA transplant?
For the dishing, I don't have the tool (never done this before either) so I was gonna use this method I saw in a comment:
Tips suggestions and warnings welcome
PS originally the necessity was the front wheel but the cone and bearings in the rear ARAYA were in such good shape I decided I'd rather transplant that as well rather than deal with overhauling the stock UKAI wheel on the bike in question (it had some issues)
The old rims were UKAI made and I'm looking to replace them with the ARAYA wheels. I noticed the araya walls of the rims are level (right angle from the inner/spoke surface) and the bike came with side pull breaks, while the walls of the UKAI comes out at a slight angle which meets the angle of the break pads from the centerpull breaks so I'll be correcting for that with breaks that have adjustable angel washers.
On to the question:
Front wheels-
Old UKAI wheel has a spacing from end of the lock nut to end of locknut.of 94mm. The new ARAYA wheel has a spacing of 98,5-99mm, and it has some washers between the locknut and cone that look like I can probably remove to get closer to 94. The question I have after reading on here is will I have to redish the wheel after? And is it best to add equal spacers to each side or are there other considerations?
Rear wheels-
Don't have the locknut distance measurement on hand of the old UKAI or ARAYA but the ARAYA has a good I think 5mm free space when put in the rear dropouts on my Fuji (into which it's being transplanted). So I have to put some spacers in to not bend the dropouts to force it to fit. The answer to the question of "does it matter if you use any old washer or should you buy bicycle specific spacers" seems to be a mixed bag but if you have tips I'll take it
The issue, from reading, is about where to add the spacers and having to redish after adding new spacers. Is it most appropriate to add to NDS? DS? equally on both sides? Should I measure the distance from the locknut on the DS the old UKAI rim to the inner part of the dropout and replicate that distance on the drive side on the ARAYA transplant?
For the dishing, I don't have the tool (never done this before either) so I was gonna use this method I saw in a comment:
I just use two cups on a flat surface and rest the wheel on them. Then I stack some items up to the axle (inner surface). Then by turning the wheel upside down you can see how big the gap is and try make it equal. If I were building wheels frequently then this tool would save some time.
PS originally the necessity was the front wheel but the cone and bearings in the rear ARAYA were in such good shape I decided I'd rather transplant that as well rather than deal with overhauling the stock UKAI wheel on the bike in question (it had some issues)
09-27-23, 02:57 PM
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The Front Araya is the CORRECT Over Locknut Distance( OLD, 100mm is the Standard measurement!)... the Fuji should fit it, not the oddly narrower hub in the Ukai rim...
as to the rear.. the fuji is a 130 OLD, and you should reset the Araya rear hub to That OLD... do this by adding a 5mm spacer, or HARDENED Washers in between the Axle spacer(or possibly, the Axle bearing cone) on the Non-drive side, and the locknut. you will then need to recenter your wheel, or have someone more skilled at the task do the re-centering.
you'll be needing an Axle Cone Wrench of PROBABLY a 15mm size to do the rear wheel, along with a 17mm wrench, or adjustable wrench..
as to the rear.. the fuji is a 130 OLD, and you should reset the Araya rear hub to That OLD... do this by adding a 5mm spacer, or HARDENED Washers in between the Axle spacer(or possibly, the Axle bearing cone) on the Non-drive side, and the locknut. you will then need to recenter your wheel, or have someone more skilled at the task do the re-centering.
you'll be needing an Axle Cone Wrench of PROBABLY a 15mm size to do the rear wheel, along with a 17mm wrench, or adjustable wrench..
Last edited by maddog34; 09-27-23 at 03:00 PM.
09-27-23, 03:14 PM
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Simple issue first.
The brake track height (from axle) will be the same, since it's determined by the overall diameter, which is fixed by size, ie. 700c vs. 27". The angle may be different, and you might need to make a very slight adjustment in shoe position, but not anything to sweat over.
The standard front hub width is 100mm, so the 99mm hub is more correct, and the narrower hub is off. You might want to transfer the axle and some spacers to bring the new wheels width to 98-100mm, but don't sweat dish since front wheels are symmetrical. (keep the cones with their respective hubs to ensure they match the cups) As long as you add spacers equally to both sides, the dish won't change.
OTOH, this isn't to imply that both wheels are correctly built now, but that's a bridge you can cross when/if you get there.
So, making the switch MIGHT involve some added work, but nothing complicated.
The brake track height (from axle) will be the same, since it's determined by the overall diameter, which is fixed by size, ie. 700c vs. 27". The angle may be different, and you might need to make a very slight adjustment in shoe position, but not anything to sweat over.
The standard front hub width is 100mm, so the 99mm hub is more correct, and the narrower hub is off. You might want to transfer the axle and some spacers to bring the new wheels width to 98-100mm, but don't sweat dish since front wheels are symmetrical. (keep the cones with their respective hubs to ensure they match the cups) As long as you add spacers equally to both sides, the dish won't change.
OTOH, this isn't to imply that both wheels are correctly built now, but that's a bridge you can cross when/if you get there.
So, making the switch MIGHT involve some added work, but nothing complicated.
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
09-28-23, 08:14 AM
#4
Junior Member
I have swapped and re-dished and re-laced a number of wheels in the past. Take your brakes off the bike and put the wheel in and see how it looks as far as being centered goes. Another thing you may want to consider is moving the rear hub side to side between the rear dropouts so that when you are in the gear you use most often during a ride, your chain-line is a straight-shot to optimize chain life and efficiency. You can adjust the position of the rear sprockets by switching spacers from side to side. Once the hub is where you want it, then get a spoke wrench and tighten the spokes on the side you want the rim to move towards a half-turn each and the rim will move towards where you want it to go. Next you can loosen the spokes on the opposite side a half turn and the rim will move more. Once you have the rim where you want it then you can go around and tighten all the spokes and true the wheel. Good for you for wanting to, and learning to, work on your bike yourself.
09-28-23, 03:33 PM
#5
Really Old Senior Member
You DON'T want to mess around with spacers on the DS.
THAT can possibly move the cogs out of the range of the RDER travel.
Manipulate all spacing on the NDS and dish to suit if needed.
THAT can possibly move the cogs out of the range of the RDER travel.
Manipulate all spacing on the NDS and dish to suit if needed.
