Indexed vs Friction Shifters
#301
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4415 Post(s)
Liked 4,867 Times
in
3,012 Posts
Trails are tougher, just because the bikes have become infinitely more capable than early MTBs, that's just progress. What would've passed as "XC" terrain about 20 years ago, is now boring to ride unless I'm on my gravel bike. Even what would be classified as technical downhill in the past, is now easily done on my short-travel XC bike. Sure, racing had a part in it, but even recreational riders wanted more capable bikes.
I do race XC MTB, but prefer the shifting on a modern 1x12 for virtually all trail riding...I can up to a trail feature, at speed, and rapid fire some shifts into the "correct" gear. All in a second or two and with zero worry about dropping a chain. I understand that not everyone needs these abilities in a drivetrain, but they're very reliable too. One of my mountain bikes I've had since '19. Many miles of rocky, technical Sierra singletrack on it...the derailleur looks like hell, gouged with rock rash. However, it performs flawlessly...I think I only adjusted the barrel adjuster once since buying it.
I do race XC MTB, but prefer the shifting on a modern 1x12 for virtually all trail riding...I can up to a trail feature, at speed, and rapid fire some shifts into the "correct" gear. All in a second or two and with zero worry about dropping a chain. I understand that not everyone needs these abilities in a drivetrain, but they're very reliable too. One of my mountain bikes I've had since '19. Many miles of rocky, technical Sierra singletrack on it...the derailleur looks like hell, gouged with rock rash. However, it performs flawlessly...I think I only adjusted the barrel adjuster once since buying it.
Likes For PeteHski:
#302
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 939
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times
in
259 Posts
I've heard of hard and fast, and I've heard of slow and easy, but I've not heard of "hard and slow." This must be some new style of riding.
I fail to understand how friction shifting could be faster than indexed -- especially if the indexed shifter is in an STI lever, or a trigger shifter -- neither of which require you to even move your hand from the handlebar.
I fail to understand how friction shifting could be faster than indexed -- especially if the indexed shifter is in an STI lever, or a trigger shifter -- neither of which require you to even move your hand from the handlebar.
Likes For RH Clark:
#304
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,887
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6972 Post(s)
Liked 10,968 Times
in
4,692 Posts
If you need to get from one end of the cassette to the other in one shift, you're doing it wrong.
#305
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,210
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2762 Post(s)
Liked 2,537 Times
in
1,433 Posts
Only reason I would go back to friction would be…. shoot, I’m coming up empty here.
Maybe if I were spending a long time cycling through a remote part of the world? But
i’ve got no plans to do that.
Maybe if I were spending a long time cycling through a remote part of the world? But
i’ve got no plans to do that.
#306
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 939
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times
in
259 Posts
Maybe you are doing it wrong.
Likes For RH Clark:
#307
Junior Member
I built my first downtube friction shifter bike yesterday. First, setting up was a breeze, so easy to do with no worries of a barrel adjuster. I used Suntour Ratchet shifters with a 2x on the front and Shimano 9sp cassette on the rear. The shifting is easy. Now for the type of riding I do, It really does not matter what shifter I have as it's all flat and easy riding, gravel or pavement. Now if I were racing, there is no way in he** I'd choose downtube over STI's. No way. I'm sure I'd get better at it but just the movement to change gears is so much more, taking one hand off the bars every time you need to change. It does make you think ahead, however. Now for just having the downtube shifters for the vintage ride, these things are a gas and I almost prefer them over the STI's. They both have their place and I embrace them all!
Likes For Breadfan:
#308
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,887
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6972 Post(s)
Liked 10,968 Times
in
4,692 Posts
When you drive a stick shift car fast and come to a full stop, you don't shift down through the gears to get back to first. When I ride fast down a hill to a stop, I don't have to shift through 10 gears to get back to first. I just change into first like you would in a car.
Maybe you are doing it wrong.
Maybe you are doing it wrong.
I don't often ride down a hill and then come to a complete stop...But if I do, then I shift gears just like you do -- before coming to a complete stop. There's no other way to do it with a derailleur system. It's probably easier with the indexed shifting in an STI (or similar SRAM) system, which easily allows one to shift while braking while maintaining complete control of the handlebar. And with Di2, the shifter can be programmed to shift the entire cassette at the mere touch of a lever. I can't imagine anything easier.
Have you tried STIs, especially Di2?
Likes For Koyote:
#309
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 705
Bikes: 1978 Bruce Gordon, 1977 Lippy, 199? Lippy tandem, Bike Friday NWT, 1982 Trek 720, 2012 Rivendell Atlantis, 1983 Bianchi Specialissima?
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times
in
107 Posts
Indexed shifting - the player piano of cycling.
Likes For L134:
#310
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,299
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8285 Post(s)
Liked 9,053 Times
in
4,479 Posts
If I was in the smallest cog and wanted to go to the largest it might take 2 or 3 pushes of the lever. Not a big deal and not a reason to use friction.
I have nothing against friction shifters, have had them on several bikes. But there is no advantage to them for my purposes. Indexing is better in about every way that I can think of.
#311
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,299
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8285 Post(s)
Liked 9,053 Times
in
4,479 Posts
#312
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: NorCal
Posts: 505
Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur 4 TR, Canyon Endurace cf sl, Canyon Ultimate cf slx, Canyon Strive enduro, Canyon Grizl sl8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked 847 Times
in
342 Posts
1x11/12 MTB drivetrains were a game-changer for me. I ride a lot of technical singletrack that was often an unwelcome challenge shifting with a traditional 3x and it’s not like I was an inexperienced rider. It is no surprise to me that the entire modern MTB world has chosen 1x12. They work flawlessly with zero chance of dropping a chain.
My new XC bike is an electronic 12 speed. Before this bike, I didn't really understand the big deal about electronic shifting, but now I understand. Light, easy shifts and the ability to program special shift functions. I have mine set up to shift 3 cogs if I press and hold the shifter...and you don't have to hold it for long. I just used this to great effect at an XC race this weekend. I had it in a tall gear to grab the holeshot on a flat, wide start, and then wait until the last possible second to downshift a few gears, once the course funneled into a sharp incline.
#313
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 7,997
Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2018 Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4957 Post(s)
Liked 8,098 Times
in
3,833 Posts
When you drive a stick shift car fast and come to a full stop, you don't shift down through the gears to get back to first. When I ride fast down a hill to a stop, I don't have to shift through 10 gears to get back to first. I just change into first like you would in a car.
Maybe you are doing it wrong.
Maybe you are doing it wrong.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Likes For Eric F:
#314
Junior Member
Just curious what people prefer around here. Seems like the benefits of frictions lie in replacability, simplicity and fine-control, whereas indexed shifters are typically considered easier to use as the ubiquitous "modern standard". I'm still new to all this though so correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't tried a friction shifter yet but will be doing so tomorrow, but I did try an STI shifter for the first time today, it was pretty cool so I'm curious how the old reliable friction shifter compares.
Anyways, just curious what people's thoughts are on shifters.
Anyways, just curious what people's thoughts are on shifters.
#315
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4415 Post(s)
Liked 4,867 Times
in
3,012 Posts
When you drive a stick shift car fast and come to a full stop, you don't shift down through the gears to get back to first. When I ride fast down a hill to a stop, I don't have to shift through 10 gears to get back to first. I just change into first like you would in a car.
Maybe you are doing it wrong.
Maybe you are doing it wrong.
Likes For PeteHski:
#316
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,515
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,512 Times
in
1,510 Posts
DT friction shifting was perfectly fine when it was all there was. Then came indexed DT shifting, which was an advance, and perfectly fine when it was all there was. And then came "brifters", which were a significant (one might say "game-changing") advance, and remain perfectly fine. Electronic, wireless, 1X - nothing wrong with them, but incremental variations on a theme.
#317
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,659
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1248 Post(s)
Liked 1,323 Times
in
674 Posts
13 pages and counting. Ah, the glorious resistance to progress – a hallmark of the staunch luddites in the world of cycling. While the rest of us revel in the wonders of indexed shifting, there's a special breed who proudly cling to their friction shifters as if the very thought of a smooth, predictable gear change is an affront to their sense of nostalgia.Why bother with the convenience of modern technology when you can revel in the sheer delight of being a cycling time traveler, transported back to an era where precision and efficiency were mere afterthoughts? Friction shifting enthusiasts are the true guardians of a bygone era, valiantly resisting the siren call of progress.
In a world where bikes are lighter, more aerodynamic, and equipped with state-of-the-art components, these cycling Luddites proudly declare, "Give me the clunky, uncertain feel of friction, or give me a single speed!" Because who needs the luxury of smooth gear changes when you can embrace the rough-and-tumble charm of yesteryear?
So, here's to the defenders of friction shifting – the true purists, standing defiantly against the tides of progress, pedaling proudly into a world where the past is always present, and efficiency is but a distant memory. May your rides be filled with the gritty satisfaction of saying, "I'll stick with what worked in the good old days!"
In a world where bikes are lighter, more aerodynamic, and equipped with state-of-the-art components, these cycling Luddites proudly declare, "Give me the clunky, uncertain feel of friction, or give me a single speed!" Because who needs the luxury of smooth gear changes when you can embrace the rough-and-tumble charm of yesteryear?
So, here's to the defenders of friction shifting – the true purists, standing defiantly against the tides of progress, pedaling proudly into a world where the past is always present, and efficiency is but a distant memory. May your rides be filled with the gritty satisfaction of saying, "I'll stick with what worked in the good old days!"
Likes For Atlas Shrugged:
#318
Junior Member
because bar-end shifters, friction or indexed, are niche products compared to DT anything. I used to use friction bar-ends - they were fine, but they’re not the first thing people think about when we’re talking about shifting.
Likes For 13ollocks:
#319
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26425 Post(s)
Liked 10,381 Times
in
7,209 Posts
13 pages and counting. Ah, the glorious resistance to progress – a hallmark of the staunch luddites in the world of cycling. While the rest of us revel in the wonders of indexed shifting, there's a special breed who proudly cling to their friction shifters as if the very thought of a smooth, predictable gear change is an affront to their sense of nostalgia.Why bother with the convenience of modern technology when you can revel in the sheer delight of being a cycling time traveler, transported back to an era where precision and efficiency were mere afterthoughts? Friction shifting enthusiasts are the true guardians of a bygone era, valiantly resisting the siren call of progress.
In a world where bikes are lighter, more aerodynamic, and equipped with state-of-the-art components, these cycling Luddites proudly declare, "Give me the clunky, uncertain feel of friction, or give me a single speed!" Because who needs the luxury of smooth gear changes when you can embrace the rough-and-tumble charm of yesteryear?
So, here's to the defenders of friction shifting – the true purists, standing defiantly against the tides of progress, pedaling proudly into a world where the past is always present, and efficiency is but a distant memory. May your rides be filled with the gritty satisfaction of saying, "I'll stick with what worked in the good old days!"
In a world where bikes are lighter, more aerodynamic, and equipped with state-of-the-art components, these cycling Luddites proudly declare, "Give me the clunky, uncertain feel of friction, or give me a single speed!" Because who needs the luxury of smooth gear changes when you can embrace the rough-and-tumble charm of yesteryear?
So, here's to the defenders of friction shifting – the true purists, standing defiantly against the tides of progress, pedaling proudly into a world where the past is always present, and efficiency is but a distant memory. May your rides be filled with the gritty satisfaction of saying, "I'll stick with what worked in the good old days!"
__________________
#320
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,952
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3953 Post(s)
Liked 7,302 Times
in
2,948 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
#321
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26425 Post(s)
Liked 10,381 Times
in
7,209 Posts
Just another way to shift the chain without stopping and doing it by hand.
__________________
#322
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,299
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8285 Post(s)
Liked 9,053 Times
in
4,479 Posts
I did watch the guy in the Camaro set a record at Nürburgring and his shifting was a thing of beauty.
#323
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,952
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3953 Post(s)
Liked 7,302 Times
in
2,948 Posts
#324
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,299
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8285 Post(s)
Liked 9,053 Times
in
4,479 Posts
#325
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,952
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3953 Post(s)
Liked 7,302 Times
in
2,948 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe: