karmat

So I have decided that it's time to work out a mystery that's been bugging me since I bought my Raleigh Professional frame last year. My Raleigh Professional frame looks just like Sheldon Brown's '72, essentially it is a Carlton Professional but with a Raleigh badge. I'm hoping that between all of us here we can work out some idea of what happened. Were these built in the same series of numbers as other Carlton Pros, then rebadged? Or are the numbers in line with other Raleigh Pros but they ran out of lugs? I think serial numbers may help this get worked out. My serial number is G3180. Does anyone have a '72 with the normal non-fancy Raleigh Professional lugs? What is your serial number? Carlton Professional owners, if yours is a '72 what serial numbers do you have? Here are some close-ups from Sheldon's site on his bike:







Mine was unfortunately powder-coated before I owned it. Here are some shots of my lugs, though:





Another interesting thing about Sheldon's and mine, is that they don't take the Campagnolo seat bolt, either. They have a recessed allen nut that threads into the lug. Is this a Carlton Professional feature?

Cheers,
Karl

karmat

Surely one of you has a '72 Carlton or Raleigh Professional. Or you have a friend who has one and you're a kindhearted soul who will get the serial number?

Cheers,
Karl

John E

My wife's brother has the earlier (ca. 1966? -- help me, Raleigh fans) white professional. I can ask him for a serial number, if that would help establish a pattern. My wife's sister has a blue-over-chrome Carlton from about the same era.

karmat

Hey thanks John. I think this type of Professional is an oddity of 1972 and so I'm just trying to turn up some more data points from that year. Mostly because I think it's an odd thing, and even Sheldon Brown didn't have an answer.

Cheers!
Karl

Pogliaghi

Karl,

Are you still out there? I have a 1972 Carlton Professional. It is exactly like the '72 Raleigh Pro - same lugs, fork crown and fast back seat stays etc. Get back to me.

Mike.

jacksbike

I am not a wunderkind when it comes to the Pro, but sold Raleighs for many years. It was very common for the same model to come with different specs and parts, during the same model year. Lugs, seats, brakes, pedals, derailleur systems, could all vary from bike shipment to bike shipment. And this would be for a model bike that came from the same factory. (Not like a Raleigh 3 speed made in England, Ireland, The Netherlands, South Africa, India, etc. ). I would surely love to own one of these mink blue babies before I die !

ScottRyder 

That is beautiful .. have you posted photos of it before? If so, please tell me where to look!

Scott

Pogliaghi

Hi Scott.

I need to get some better photos - I will post as soon as I have them.

Mike.

karmat

Yep, still out here. Nice looking bike you have there, Mike! Yes, it looks exactly like my Raleigh Professional. Is the serial numbering scheme different, or is it identical to the Raleigh scheme? I wonder if they just painted them one way or the other at the time depending on orders. It was the height of the boom. Incidentally, my Pro is now for sale here.

Cheers,
Karl

dbakl

I believe they were sold as Raleigh in the US but continued to be sold as Carlton in the UK due to different brand recognition.

Raleigh bought Carlton to get into the racing bike market. Raleigh in the UK conjures up a lowly 3-speed, where Carlton is a racing bike. Raleigh in the US was known as an "English Racer", a big step up from our balloon tired monstrosities!

Pogliaghi

Hi Karl,

The serial number is stamped on the BB shell and is A55 65. I believe that the Carlton Professional came equipped with Nuovo Record, however my dad bought mine from a bike shop in Sheffield England with a mish mash of parts. If I wasn't so sentimental about the bike I would have returned it to all Campy. There are very few around - paint and decals/stickers are all original.

Mike.

randyjawa 

I used to own an early seventies, 1971 I think, Carlton Professional. There is a Raleigh Professional and a Carlton Professional, both racing bikes and both different, even though they were remarkably similar. Raleigh bought out Carlton. With that out of the way, all high end Raleigh bikes were built in the Carlton, Worksop factory. Hence, the Raleigh bikes were fitted with a decal indicating that the bike was built at the Carlton factory.

After some time passed, the Carlton was phased out, never to be heard from again. Best guess for the final demise of the Carlton would be late seventies or very early eighties.

So, please don't think that a Raleigh is a Carlton, even though all Carltons and some Raleighs were built in the same facility.

I think???

dbakl

Hmm, depending on the model and period, I'd say a Raleigh is a Carlton, but a Carlton isn't a Raleigh!

I believe the fastback stay design (Brompton?) existed on Carltons before the Raleigh Pro of 1970. The 1969 (some say 1968 too) Raleigh Pro was was white with wraparound stays ala an International (which was really a Carlton Flyer!)

nbracken

Hello I just found this site.

I have a Carlton Professional from circa 1970. I bought is 2nd hand from a disillusioned racer after he had a fall in 1974 and have owned it ever since. It has two serial numbers stamped under the bottom bracket: F239 and 10791.

I hope this helps. I'll try and get a photo and post this later.

Nigel

randyjawa 

Not sure if this will be much help but you are welcome to visit my Carlton Professional or Carlton Flyer pages. Wish I had not sold either bicycle:-(

nbracken

Randy fabulous and thanks for the quick reply - the site is great. My bike is very similar to yours including teh gear changers on the handlebar ends and Campagnolo Nuovo gear set. I'll take some photos and get it written up. It cost me GBP40 in 1974 and I am so glad I have kept it all these years...

buzzybelmondo

I have a Raleigh pro identical to the one on SB's site
Sn is G1353

dbakl

The fastback stay Raleigh Pros have that too. I have a 69 and a 70. I imagine they had some older lugs they wanted to use up that year... My Carlton Flyers from the 60s have those lugs.

roseskunk

I've got one but it's way back in the storage room. I'll get to it son and see what she is...

epoxybuzzer

Hi just found the site
Like nbracken i have a carlton pro that i got about 30+years ogo i think its the same as your bike so i hope you can help with some information
Like yours i have two numbers in the bb the first number is f1676 and the second is 351 i think the second is a number of a limited run.
But can you tell me are they all logoon blue and is the bar end shifter a standard feature ?
I am looking for a pair of forks if you know where i might find them any information would be a great help

also can you tell me has your bike got wrap around rear stays the 72 on all apear to have butter rear stays

Any help would be great as i as going to ut it back into as new condition if i can

Many Thanks
Richard:

rogerrabbit

I have an oddity of a Raleigh Professional. It has a C and 4 digit serial number, and an H and 3 digit second number. Pics are at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rogerra...7625640988637/
It is badged as a Raleigh but is either a Carlton Giro d'Italia or Carlton Team Replica. The colour scheme is similar but not the same as the first Raleigh Professional, but it has the fastback stays of the Carlton. The paint is original although in poor condition.

I have a theory that this frame is somehow related to Raleigh taking over the Carlton team in 1968 for one year.

Roger

rootboy 

Boy. I'll second that comment from Scottryder. That is a real beauty. Love that color combo.

cat2track

Great bikes check out the pictures on Raleigh Professional 1972, Schwinn Paramount 1968, Pinarello Treviso 1986, Raleigh Track Pro 1974, Colnago 1979,
The Raleigh Professional 1972 has road wheels on it the orginal, sewup are just switch out now.

https://bicyclerestoration.blogspot.com/

cat2track

Serial # G45xx
https://bicyclerestoration.blogspot.com/ for more pictures.

ftwelder

I just snagged this Professional in my size! I think it is around '72 but I am not sure. The serial is F4999. No date on cranks, P71 rear derailleur, champion du monde rims, cool 3ttt stem marked "special", unmarked handlebars


29 807 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


29 809 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


29 810 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


29 811 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr