SoSmellyAir

Yes, but only if you induce oversteer by lightly bouncing the clutch and dial in the right amount of opposite lock. DORIFTO FTW!

Mojo31

Utter BS.

seypat

What about these?

qwaalodge

I learned cornering at 10 years old. It's 100% leaning and 0% steering.

How I learned to corner is put my hands right next to the stem on the handlebar and do 6 to 10 mph figure of 8's on the neighborhood street (I bet you can also do it in an empty parking lot).

If your hands is right next to the stem in the handlebar, it will be quite difficult to turn the handlebar so the only easy way the handlebar will turn is to lean into the turn and don't even try to steer the handlebar.

LarrySellerz

Ok 40 mph might be a bit of a stretch (though you could easily pick up that speed on the hill before the corner.) but there are multiple national champions who ride that corner a few times a month so the bar is really high. I hold myself to a high standard, there’s no reason I can’t be as good as them.

GhostRider62

That's a cheapshot. Kid is a recovering alcoholic and probably homeless.

seypat

Get something to use as a course barrier. Go to a vacant parking lot set up a simulated course. Practice. Practice correctly. As with any endeavor, practice is the key to getting better. Maybe install some training wheels during training and wear knee/elbow pads.

Boxes are cheap. Do some dumpster diving and acquire boxes for your practice course barriers.

qwaalodge

Another good way to train leaning into turns (hence, cornering) is using aerobars. When your forearms is resting on the aerobar, the ONLY way you're going to turn the front wheel is by leaning into turns. Probably practice in an empty parking lot because you have no access to brakes when using the aerobar.

I still use parking lots often but in these days to test bike setup like whenever I change the stem, move the saddle, etc. I do so at 10 pm so at least it's empty of people.

seypat

Why don't you use you mad urban cyclist skillz to bunny hop the barrier chain, cut across the grass, bunny hop the chain again, and come out in front of the group? That's what a hard-core urban cyclist/rebel would do. Keeping it real and sticking it to the Man at the same time.

LarrySellerz

im kind of upset because I’ve actually fantasized about that exact thing (bunny hops there) because it’s a sprint point.

unfortunately my bunny hop is super weak. I can’t even trackstand, frankly it’s embarrassing.

DaveSSS 

If you take a motorcycle training course you'll then understand cornering. The first thing I was taught was to push on right side of the bar to turn right. The issue that gets people's panties in a wad is the difference between countersteering and countersteering force on the bars. The direction that the tire is pointed doesn't matter. On a motorcycle, if you quit applying a countersteering force, the bike will immediately straighten up. Same for a bicycle, except the force is very small and drop bars confuse the issue. Leaning on the right side to turn right inevitably applies a countersteering force and makes riders think they're ONLY leaning on the bar. If you have a straight bar bike to practice with you'd be able to turn high speed corners, just like on a motorcycle, using countersteering force. I rode the same 10 mile descent with many tight turns 700 times over a 7 year period and never failed to negotiate any of the corners. I now go down some steep descents at up to 57 mph and apply the brakes for a few seconds to get down to around 40 to make a curve at the bottom.

What's impossible to know is how much traction the road provides. I've slid out on sand and finely powdered dirt on asphalt a few times. That has nothing to do with cornering ability. I was going where I wanted to.

LarrySellerz

any books you recommend?

WhyFi

There's no Strava segment for just that corner, but the top times of the college loop show them turning in at ~30mph, hitting the apex at ~25mph and exiting at ~20mph.

Yup, besides their exceptionally good fortune of winning the genetic lottery and their tireless work, to hone both fitness and skills, there's no reason that you can't be as good.

work4bike

I'm generally a fast cyclist and many times I have to take a turn off a busy road (I don't like slowing down), consequently I've learned to take corners at a fairly fast rate. I don't know how I compare to the professionals, but I know I'm better than the average cyclists, but I'm not sure I can teach someone on how to corner at speed, since my body has just learned how to do it without too much conscious thought.

However, no matter how good you are, you're always susceptible at falling in a turn. I rediscovered this fact a few weeks ago, when I was only about a mile from my house (at the end of my ride), I was going slowly and started to make a turn when I saw a jogger in my line, so I adjusted to take the corner in the middle of the street, no big deal since I was riding about 10-mph...so I thought...

Some how I went down hard, very hard on some loose gravel. I take this turn every day at the end of my bike ride, never a problem... This gravel I slipped on is very common on where streets meet on a perpendicular, because for some reason there tends to be a crack that forms on this connection point and that's the source of the source gravel. I still corner at speed, but I'm much more conscious of this loose gravel. BTW, in many instances, this gravel is very hard to see, because it's exactly the same color as the street and it's not a very thick layer.




.

DaveSSS 

Check out YouTube for motorcycle cornering videos. Some do a decent job of showing the counter steering force principle. On a bicycle, all I do is keep the inside pedal up or both pedals neutral, if the curve is sharp enough. There's no real need to apply pressure on the outside pedal. Deliberately trying to create a bike angle lower than necessary is likely to result in the rear tire slipping out.

tomato coupe

BS is BS, regardless of one’s personal situation.

genejockey 

If you want to be a world class athlete, choose your grandparents carefully.

qwaalodge

I never thought of counter-steering when I learned cornering when I was a kid. We didn't have internet back then.

If I heard it back then, it would probably only confuse me. My take on the matter is whenever you lean, the bike **automatically** counter-steers. It all happens without your knowledge, nor conscious action even when you're just learning.

Bottom line is, you don't even need to know such thing (counter-steering) exist except to explain the principle.

Practice turning purely by leaning without consciously trying to turn the handlebar. It's doable even at low speeds like around 10 mph, safe enough to do in a neighborhood street or empty parking lot. Although higher speeds would make it easier to stay balanced, albeit may result to bigger injuries if you fall. The principle is the same at much higher speeds.

It took me a month of daily practice give or take to perfect cornering technique. Although it won't be after many years I would do my first >40 mph descent. By that time I didn't have any problems at all. The 10 mph cornering experience works the same at 40 mph.

work4bike

This video shows how a bike's steering works by locking out the handlebar. It shows how much we learn how to ride intuitively.

DaveSSS 

About leaning and countersteering force. If countersteering force is applied, the bike leans itself into a turn and the rider should lean too, so the torso remains parallel to the bike, just like you would if riding straight ahead. There's no need for body leaning to start a turn. I've ridden many thousands of high speed turns on mountain descents that prove that. I apply countersteering force to make a turn and vary the force to increase or decrease the turn radius. I've never ridden off the road due to poor steering technique. I love watching pro cyclists ride off the road because they came into a turn too fast, so they just quit steering and go straight into the ditch rather than slide the rear tire out.

Regarding the use of aero bars, there's plenty of ability to steer through a high speed turn while using them. It does not force a rider to lean to turn. I sure wouldn't ride a mountain descent on them.

You'll also find among the motorcycle videos the fact that very low speed turns are made by turning the front wheel in the same direction as the turn. There's a transition speed where countersteering is required.

PeteHski

That sounds a bit more realistic for a skilled rider on the limit. From the photo, 40 mph seemed very ambitious!

Paul Barnard

My dog had to console me a few times during that read. The movie was a bit of a disappointment.

Darth Lefty 

Read this. More than you might think applies to bicycles.

"Twist Of The Wrist" is good too but more focused on track

njkayaker

I noticed that drop-in. 40 mph in the turn might be a big stretch.

There are lots of reasons: skill, experience, weight, equipment, and decent medical coverage.

merlinextraligh

1) google Davis Phinney. The “cash register” won more bike races than any American cyclist, at least since Major Taylor, most of them crits. Dude knew how to handle a bike.

2) find people who corner and descend well; follow them.