A couple of things I dont understand
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DANG, 65+ years of bicycle riding so my fingers are pinch perfect calibrated for tire pressure and I carry a cell phone.
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Also, pretty ridiculous that masculinity is somehow the ideal for this. I've gotten some damn good roadside advice from a woman bike mechanic who just happened to be riding by. Just shows how gender imbalanced BF is that someone gets away with the implied put-down of femininity.
I agree with you that sex should not be a determining factor when choosing a bike mechanic but I also wonder about the percentage of men’s bike shop techs vs women techs.
If you needed a costly major repair on your bike and walked into a bike shop with only one choice(and no other data)as to who would do the work and there was one woman and one man behind the counter, who would you choose?
Based upon the law of averages I would think the choice is obvious and it wouldn’t imply that you are putting down women imo.
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Oi .... here it goes ...... The local shop runs a lot of group rides and has its own cycling club (or rather, the shop owners and most employees are in the club.) There are riders of both sexes (or is "genders" the PC acceptable term nowadays ? ) In any case, any of them can work the register, fix a bike, outride my sorry butt and keep up with the fast group .... But it isn't "sexist" top assume that if there are two people in a shop, the guy is the mechanic, but Only because of social patterns .... "norms" which are in fact not "normal" but just usual.
However, the "Big-girl panties" remark was definitely an attack by Rydabent on what he implied was the lacking masculinity of people who don't do roadside repair.
The logical flaw here .... would be taking anything Rydabent posted, seriously.
He is not only a bent rider, he is a dinosaur, even by my standards. He grew up in a time when men were os afraid of women men had to belittle and demean women just to feel adequate .... and he is one of those old guys who instead of getting wise, got bitter, so he is still living in the mindset of a person born in the Cretaceous age (or however old he is---I think he is 85.) To him, calling a wan "womanly" is an ultimate put-down.... he doesn't see that he is also demeaning all women because for him, looking down on women (those scary women) is this norm.
(Contrast this with OldTryGuy who is about as old but has stayed vital and mentally alive ..... )
But hey .... for a guy as old as Rydabent to still be able to ride at all, is pretty amazing, so I try to cut him some slack when he responds with his tiny dinosaur brain, or completely fails to grasp the meaning of posts responding to his, or fails to even read posts responding to his ......
As for the size of underwear .... I guess Depends won't fit under bibs which is why he so loudly advertises the benefits of loose, floppy shorts.
But hey .... for all his silliness, the guy is still riding.
However, the "Big-girl panties" remark was definitely an attack by Rydabent on what he implied was the lacking masculinity of people who don't do roadside repair.
The logical flaw here .... would be taking anything Rydabent posted, seriously.
He is not only a bent rider, he is a dinosaur, even by my standards. He grew up in a time when men were os afraid of women men had to belittle and demean women just to feel adequate .... and he is one of those old guys who instead of getting wise, got bitter, so he is still living in the mindset of a person born in the Cretaceous age (or however old he is---I think he is 85.) To him, calling a wan "womanly" is an ultimate put-down.... he doesn't see that he is also demeaning all women because for him, looking down on women (those scary women) is this norm.
(Contrast this with OldTryGuy who is about as old but has stayed vital and mentally alive ..... )
But hey .... for a guy as old as Rydabent to still be able to ride at all, is pretty amazing, so I try to cut him some slack when he responds with his tiny dinosaur brain, or completely fails to grasp the meaning of posts responding to his, or fails to even read posts responding to his ......
As for the size of underwear .... I guess Depends won't fit under bibs which is why he so loudly advertises the benefits of loose, floppy shorts.
But hey .... for all his silliness, the guy is still riding.
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#104
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Pretty sure the quote you referenced was not meant to be an ‘implied put-down of femininity’
I agree with you that sex should not be a determining factor when choosing a bike mechanic but I also wonder about the percentage of men’s bike shop techs vs women techs.
If you needed a costly major repair on your bike and walked into a bike shop with only one choice(and no other data)as to who would do the work and there was one woman and one man behind the counter, who would you choose?
Based upon the law of averages I would think the choice is obvious and it wouldn’t imply that you are putting down women imo.
I agree with you that sex should not be a determining factor when choosing a bike mechanic but I also wonder about the percentage of men’s bike shop techs vs women techs.
If you needed a costly major repair on your bike and walked into a bike shop with only one choice(and no other data)as to who would do the work and there was one woman and one man behind the counter, who would you choose?
Based upon the law of averages I would think the choice is obvious and it wouldn’t imply that you are putting down women imo.
Look at the quote and tell me that isn't an implied statement that men who don't repair the bike roadside are "womanly". Obviously, that is supposed to be an insult of the men, that they are acting like women who can't fix their own bikes.
Ryda's comment is an overtly sexist comment. I agree with Maelochs that OP probably isn't to be taken too seriously, but your claim here is really an insult to everyone's intelligence. Why would you work this hard to deny the obvious?
And no, in your hypothetical, I'm working with the first tech who talks to me, this "you would" crap is nonsense. Yes, if you opt for the male tech just because he's male and reject the female simply because she's female, you are a sexist person. That averages junk is a very transparent rationalization of anti-group prejudice. And just so you know, that's not how statistics work. There is no such thing as a "law of averages" for individual skills and talents.
You're actually much worse than OP here, you should know better.
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#105
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I always carry flat fixing stuff (pump, spare tube, patches, tire levers) on every ride despite not having a single flat in nearly 5000km of riding this year. That stuff, plus a multitool, chain breaker, and spare chain quick link barely takes up any space so I don't see the point in leaving it behind. Everything but the pump goes in a single pocket of my trunk bag on my rear rack, and the pump mounts to the frame of my bike.
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When I hear about "50000 km without a flat" i really feel insecure ..... if can can go five weeks without a flat I feel like I am winning the lottery.
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I always carry flat fixing stuff (pump, spare tube, patches, tire levers) on every ride despite not having a single flat in nearly 5000km of riding this year. That stuff, plus a multitool, chain breaker, and spare chain quick link barely takes up any space so I don't see the point in leaving it behind. Everything but the pump goes in a single pocket of my trunk bag on my rear rack, and the pump mounts to the frame of my bike.
Wish I could say I've not had any flats this year, but I've done a little bit more riding than you, so you may catch up on flats this year yet. I hope not, though, that's a really great streak you got going there.
.
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If you needed a costly major repair on your bike and walked into a bike shop with only one choice(and no other data)as to who would do the work and there was one woman and one man behind the counter, who would you choose?
Based upon the law of averages I would think the choice is obvious and it wouldn’t imply that you are putting down women imo.
Based upon the law of averages I would think the choice is obvious and it wouldn’t imply that you are putting down women imo.
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Although, I did just that about two weeks ago. The last person or Olympic weight lifter who tightened my rear through-axle did a fantastic job. I got a gashed tire (I might have been able to boot it) but could not get the through-axle loosened. I cursed, prodded and bent a tire level in futile attempts to get the thing loose. I even took off my bike shoe and tried using it as a hammer. It required a decent sized rubber mallet's 2-3 good hits to move it.
I now understand AAA might come to the rescue. Or the appropriate Lyft/Uber car???
I now understand AAA might come to the rescue. Or the appropriate Lyft/Uber car???
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Look at the quote and tell me that isn't an implied statement that men who don't repair the bike roadside are "womanly". Obviously, that is supposed to be an insult of the men, that they are acting like women who can't fix their own bikes.
Ryda's comment is an overtly sexist comment. I agree with Maelochs that OP probably isn't to be taken too seriously, but your claim here is really an insult to everyone's intelligence. Why would you work this hard to deny the obvious?
And no, in your hypothetical, I'm working with the first tech who talks to me, this "you would" crap is nonsense. Yes, if you opt for the male tech just because he's male and reject the female simply because she's female, you are a sexist person. That averages junk is a very transparent rationalization of anti-group prejudice. And just so you know, that's not how statistics work. There is no such thing as a "law of averages" for individual skills and talents.
You're actually much worse than OP here, you should know better.
Ryda's comment is an overtly sexist comment. I agree with Maelochs that OP probably isn't to be taken too seriously, but your claim here is really an insult to everyone's intelligence. Why would you work this hard to deny the obvious?
And no, in your hypothetical, I'm working with the first tech who talks to me, this "you would" crap is nonsense. Yes, if you opt for the male tech just because he's male and reject the female simply because she's female, you are a sexist person. That averages junk is a very transparent rationalization of anti-group prejudice. And just so you know, that's not how statistics work. There is no such thing as a "law of averages" for individual skills and talents.
You're actually much worse than OP here, you should know better.
If the overwhelming majority of bike shop techs are male you would be going against the averages by assuming the female is the tech. You knew what my point was and cannot wiggle out with semantics.
And I agree with you that Ryda made sexist comments but as you know, I wasn’t referring to him.
#111
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I agree with you that sex should not be a determining factor when choosing a bike mechanic but I also wonder about the percentage of men’s bike shop techs vs women techs.
If you needed a costly major repair on your bike and walked into a bike shop with only one choice(and no other data)as to who would do the work and there was one woman and one man behind the counter, who would you choose?
Based upon the law of averages I would think the choice is obvious and it wouldn’t imply that you are putting down women imo.
If you needed a costly major repair on your bike and walked into a bike shop with only one choice(and no other data)as to who would do the work and there was one woman and one man behind the counter, who would you choose?
Based upon the law of averages I would think the choice is obvious and it wouldn’t imply that you are putting down women imo.
And no, in your hypothetical, I'm working with the first tech who talks to me, this "you would" crap is nonsense. Yes, if you opt for the male tech just because he's male and reject the female simply because she's female, you are a sexist person. That averages junk is a very transparent rationalization of anti-group prejudice. And just so you know, that's not how statistics work. There is no such thing as a "law of averages" for individual skills and talents.
You're actually much worse than OP here, you should know better.
You're actually much worse than OP here, you should know better.
You are both correct: most bike techs are men, and sex should not be a determining factor in choosing a bike tech.
#112
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I maintain my bikes well enough that I only feel I need a patch kit, tire levers and CO2 inflator for the roads and routes I ride. I do however have a multi-tool and spare tube in my saddle bag. Bike-packing, touring, solo century riding and jumping off of cliffs on a poorly assembled Huffy from Walmart may have different equipment needs.
I do find it interesting that along the way in this thread masculinity is starting to be measured by the ability to fix a flat or the number of wheels on the bike. As long as folks are riding what they enjoy I don't think it should matter to me if they ride a recumbent pulling a sag wagon full of gear.
I do find it interesting that along the way in this thread masculinity is starting to be measured by the ability to fix a flat or the number of wheels on the bike. As long as folks are riding what they enjoy I don't think it should matter to me if they ride a recumbent pulling a sag wagon full of gear.
It appears that another poster thought I was calling your comment sexist. I didn't mean to suggest anything of the kind, and was referring to the comment you were responding to. I think you and I agree that linking the ability to repair a bike or pretty much anything else to do with gender identity is ludicrous. I intended to actually offer a "friendly amendment" to your comment, just to say maybe it didn't go far enough in calling out how ludicrous the OP's post was.
I apologize for not making this sufficiently clear in my previous reply.
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livedarklions , you missed the point that downhillmaster is making: he's talking about which person is more likely to be a bike tech, not about which is a better bike tech. He reiterates the point here:
You are both correct: most bike techs are men, and sex should not be a determining factor in choosing a bike tech.
You are both correct: most bike techs are men, and sex should not be a determining factor in choosing a bike tech.
I didn't get that until his second response. I don't think my misinterpretation is my fault, however. He used the wrong word, "choice" implies I'm choosing who does the work, he really meant "guess" or "bet". I'm not sure what the reason for the "costly major" part of the question downhillmaster posed has to do with that bet, but I'll accept that this was a misunderstanding on my part, and he didn't mean to imply he wasn't going to let a woman mechanic work on his bike if he had a choice. I think he clarified that and I no longer think his example is sexist. I do think the scenario is odd, however. I would probably figure it out by watching them for about 2 seconds and see who was wrenching. Also, techs tend to dress differently from "front of the house".
It appears that I committed my own mistaken impression that I was criticizing the person I was responding to when I meant to be discussing the post he was responding to, and I have posted an apology to that effect.
Can we just chalk this up to a three way misunderstanding, and agree that calling people unmanly for things like this is an implied insult to women?
Last edited by livedarklions; 09-16-21 at 09:05 AM.
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#114
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I didn't get that until his second response. I don't think my misinterpretation is my fault, however. He used the wrong word, "choice" implies I'm choosing who does the work, he really meant "guess" or "bet". I'm not sure what the reason for the "costly major" part of the question downhillmaster posed has to do with that bet, but I'll accept that this was a misunderstanding on my part, and he didn't mean to imply he wasn't going to let a woman mechanic work on his bike if he had a choice. I think he clarified that and I no longer think his example is sexist. I do think the scenario is odd, however. I would probably figure it out by watching them for about 2 seconds and see who was wrenching. Also, techs tend to dress differently from "front of the house".
It appears that I committed my own mistaken impression that I was criticizing the person I was responding to when I meant to be discussing the post he was responding to, and I have posted an apology to that effect.
Can we just chalk this up to a three way misunderstanding, and agree that calling people unmanly for things like this is an implied insult to women?
It appears that I committed my own mistaken impression that I was criticizing the person I was responding to when I meant to be discussing the post he was responding to, and I have posted an apology to that effect.
Can we just chalk this up to a three way misunderstanding, and agree that calling people unmanly for things like this is an implied insult to women?
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#115
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Nope.
If the overwhelming majority of bike shop techs are male you would be going against the averages by assuming the female is the tech. You knew what my point was and cannot wiggle out with semantics.
And I agree with you that Ryda made sexist comments but as you know, I wasn’t referring to him.
If the overwhelming majority of bike shop techs are male you would be going against the averages by assuming the female is the tech. You knew what my point was and cannot wiggle out with semantics.
And I agree with you that Ryda made sexist comments but as you know, I wasn’t referring to him.
Two misunderstandings, going both ways. See my replies above.
I really thought you were referring to a situation with two techs, one male and female, and you had to choose between them. If you reread your post, I think you'll realize that's not an unreasonable interpretation just as I realized it was not clear whose comment I was calling sexist. I'm glad we aren't really disagreeing (much) here.
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If someone says your'e as dumb as a box of hammers, is it an insult to hammers, boxes, or both?
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The only thing I disagree with in that statement is "kind of".
It's definitely meant as an insult to the men who aren't behaving in the way the person making the accusation says they should, but I'm not sure it's an insult to "men" generally. That's a semantics point, and I could go either way.
I will say that I don't think I've heard "unwomanly" used as an insult in quite the same way. That would usually be a comment about appearance, I think.
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Neither, since both are not sentient.
You're not equating women with either boxes or hammers, are you?
I realize you probably meant this as a complete nonsense joke, but on the off-chance you think you're making some kind of point..
Too much exposure to the internet has made it impossible for anyone to tell when someone is serious about a silly argument...
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livedarklions , you missed the point that downhillmaster is making: he's talking about which person is more likely to be a bike tech, not about which is a better bike tech. He reiterates the point here:
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I like that. Something to consider if the darn through-axle winds up too tight for just bare hands and I have left the two pound rubber mallet at home! Or I could bring along a two pound segment of pipe!
Last edited by kahn; 09-16-21 at 12:12 PM.
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Also, pretty ridiculous that masculinity is somehow the ideal for this. I've gotten some damn good roadside advice from a woman bike mechanic who just happened to be riding by. Just shows how gender imbalanced BF is that someone gets away with the implied put-down of femininity.
But I was a "liberated" male before that - my women friends made sure of that! Besides my dad did not know which end of a hammer to use (excellent professional photographer, though) - mom did all those small chores in our apt!
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