Headtube size, adjustable stem
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Here's an old Boy Scout skill. Use a stick to measure something whose size you don't know by comparing its projection to something you do know. In this case I used a pencil to compare the head tubes to the fork blades. I don't know how long fork blades are, but it's safe to assume they're almost identical. You could do me one better by using a ruler. Or compare it to the rim diameter, 622 mm.
Or you could eyeball the proximity of the handlebar ends to the top tube. In the case of the Victeur, they're about level with the lower edge of the top tube. In the case of the Planet X, they're a lot closer to the down tube. You can flip the stem and fiddle with spacers to bring the bar up to the same level on the Planet X. Or a cm or two lower, allowing that the Planet X is larger and has a longer head tube. Of course, this stem might still be too long. Back in the day, we used to approximate reach by measuring the distance between the saddle nose and the handlebar with our forearm, elbow to fingertip. I think the biblical term for it is "cubit." My span from saddle nose to handlebar center is 1 cubit plus 8.75 cm. I ride with a very flat back.
I know this isn't as accurate as a factory geometry chart, but you don't have that, so you have to improvise, and the proof is in the riding anyway.
Or you could eyeball the proximity of the handlebar ends to the top tube. In the case of the Victeur, they're about level with the lower edge of the top tube. In the case of the Planet X, they're a lot closer to the down tube. You can flip the stem and fiddle with spacers to bring the bar up to the same level on the Planet X. Or a cm or two lower, allowing that the Planet X is larger and has a longer head tube. Of course, this stem might still be too long. Back in the day, we used to approximate reach by measuring the distance between the saddle nose and the handlebar with our forearm, elbow to fingertip. I think the biblical term for it is "cubit." My span from saddle nose to handlebar center is 1 cubit plus 8.75 cm. I ride with a very flat back.
I know this isn't as accurate as a factory geometry chart, but you don't have that, so you have to improvise, and the proof is in the riding anyway.
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So did you like it when it was "right?" Or if it's not "right" now, what is preventing you from achieving "rightness?" I am totally confused now. You complain about pain, but you post dated photos. What was wrong with the Victeur when you took the photo?
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Whats was preventing me from rightness was trying to get the same measurments from the victeur to the planet X I hope..
The rightness, had me "unweightin my arms and upper body, as steve hoggs explains
Last edited by Sam12345; 03-10-24 at 07:05 PM.
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So here's my last question. Why are you using the longest possible stem (14 cm) on a bike with a longer top tube than your old one, who's stem length you apparently can't remember. And why are you so focused on head tube length (stack) and refusing to consider top tube + stem length (horizontal reach)?
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Well, all I can tell you is that the headtube on the Planet X is taller and you won't be able to load it up with spacers because the steerer is already cut, and it's most likely that the top tube is longer, too, and I have no idea how the Victeur was set up except that it had a 13 or 14 cm stem with 1.5 cm of spacer plus what looks like a 1.0 cm cone, that may have been installed +7 or -7 but you aren't telling us. And your neck and shoulders hurt.
So here's my last question. Why are you using the longest possible stem (14 cm) on a bike with a longer top tube than your old one, who's stem length you apparently can't remember. And why are you so focused on head tube length (stack) and refusing to consider top tube + stem length (horizontal reach)?
So here's my last question. Why are you using the longest possible stem (14 cm) on a bike with a longer top tube than your old one, who's stem length you apparently can't remember. And why are you so focused on head tube length (stack) and refusing to consider top tube + stem length (horizontal reach)?
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Is this all about your neck being achy still?
Possibly you just need a helmet that will give you better forward vision so you don't need to lift your head up so much. Some helmets come too low on your brow and block your view down the road. That forces you to bend your neck too much and strains your neck muscles. You helmet might have some adjustment to help keep it further back on your head.
Also a arched back can also cause you to lift your head too much to see down the road. Straighten your back if it is arched. It'll take some time to get use to that though.
Otherwise, if you are looking to raise your bars for a solution, then you probably have the wrong bike and should get a different model bike with a higher frame stack. If your Forme Victeur was from your younger days... well things change for some as they get older.
Possibly you just need a helmet that will give you better forward vision so you don't need to lift your head up so much. Some helmets come too low on your brow and block your view down the road. That forces you to bend your neck too much and strains your neck muscles. You helmet might have some adjustment to help keep it further back on your head.
Also a arched back can also cause you to lift your head too much to see down the road. Straighten your back if it is arched. It'll take some time to get use to that though.
Otherwise, if you are looking to raise your bars for a solution, then you probably have the wrong bike and should get a different model bike with a higher frame stack. If your Forme Victeur was from your younger days... well things change for some as they get older.
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Is this all about your neck being achy still?
Possibly you just need a helmet that will give you better forward vision so you don't need to lift your head up so much. Some helmets come too low on your brow and block your view down the road. That forces you to bend your neck too much and strains your neck muscles. You helmet might have some adjustment to help keep it further back on your head.
Also a arched back can also cause you to lift your head too much to see down the road. Straighten your back if it is arched. It'll take some time to get use to that though.
Otherwise, if you are looking to raise your bars for a solution, then you probably have the wrong bike and should get a different model bike with a higher frame stack. If your Forme Victeur was from your younger days... well things change for some as they get older.
Possibly you just need a helmet that will give you better forward vision so you don't need to lift your head up so much. Some helmets come too low on your brow and block your view down the road. That forces you to bend your neck too much and strains your neck muscles. You helmet might have some adjustment to help keep it further back on your head.
Also a arched back can also cause you to lift your head too much to see down the road. Straighten your back if it is arched. It'll take some time to get use to that though.
Otherwise, if you are looking to raise your bars for a solution, then you probably have the wrong bike and should get a different model bike with a higher frame stack. If your Forme Victeur was from your younger days... well things change for some as they get older.
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Yet you want the handlebars higher than what the bike currently supports. Instead of making the bike look dorky with weirdly angled stems, you should consider another road bike that has a higher frame stack that will have less saddle to bar drop that you seem to be wanting.
If your neck isn't achy from craning it up to see down the road, then maybe you really want to be stretched out more and should try a longer stem.
It's also possible you might want a shorter stem to let you put more bend in your elbows to help with the muscle strain.
And if the strain is more lower between the shoulder blades, then perhaps narrower handlebars. I went from 42cm wide to 38cm bars to alleviate some pain between my shoulder blades and some elbow pain that felt similar to a shin splint.
If your neck isn't achy from craning it up to see down the road, then maybe you really want to be stretched out more and should try a longer stem.
It's also possible you might want a shorter stem to let you put more bend in your elbows to help with the muscle strain.
And if the strain is more lower between the shoulder blades, then perhaps narrower handlebars. I went from 42cm wide to 38cm bars to alleviate some pain between my shoulder blades and some elbow pain that felt similar to a shin splint.
Last edited by Iride01; 03-11-24 at 09:29 AM.
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Yet you want the handlebars higher than what the bike currently supports. Instead of making the bike look dorky with weirdly angled stems, you should consider another road bike that has a higher frame stack that will have less saddle to bar drop that you seem to be wanting.
If your neck isn't achy from craning it up to see down the road, then maybe you really want to be stretched out more and should try a longer stem.
It's also possible you might want a shorter stem to let you put more bend in your elbows to help with the muscle strain.
And if the strain is more lower between the shoulder blades, then perhaps narrower handlebars. I went from 42cm wide to 38cm bars to alleviate some pain between my shoulder blades and some elbow pain that felt similar to a shin splint.
If your neck isn't achy from craning it up to see down the road, then maybe you really want to be stretched out more and should try a longer stem.
It's also possible you might want a shorter stem to let you put more bend in your elbows to help with the muscle strain.
And if the strain is more lower between the shoulder blades, then perhaps narrower handlebars. I went from 42cm wide to 38cm bars to alleviate some pain between my shoulder blades and some elbow pain that felt similar to a shin splint.
My neck seems to shrink into my shoulders
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Last edited by Sam12345; 03-12-24 at 07:57 AM.
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Holy ****, i have found the geometry chart... https://web.archive.org/web/20110228...ry/victeur.php
Now did i have a 61 or... or 58... frame
Now did i have a 61 or... or 58... frame
Last edited by Sam12345; 03-12-24 at 05:15 PM.
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Might also be just poor upper body strength and bad posture. And certainly a poor fitting bike or a helmet that comes too low on your brow might exacerbate that. Your focus on head tube length won't really help. I've seen headtubes on very large bikes that were short compared to other models that have longer headtubes on a smaller size bike..
On vintage bikes you could somewhat see heat tube length as saying what it size was or how high it's saddle to bar drop would be. But todays bikes don't all fit that older design style of making bikes.
It's reach and stack you have to figure out if it's the position the bike puts you in that is the issue. Along with a few other things.
Last edited by Iride01; 03-16-24 at 12:29 PM.
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This guy explains it better than I can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbuK4-HXhxY
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So yeh i lowered the stem by 1cm, and its a 110cm, less neck pain, still a bit there, but much improvement.. I could move my neck arond without any ache/tension/feeling of restrction.. so maybe I need to revist saddle setback, or go even lower. I think im at about 12-13cm saddle drop to bar.. when I had the 1cm spacer on, and the -17 120 stem my neck was aching, then probably too long? I think the -17th 120 is like 1.5cm longer than the 110 -6?
Last edited by Sam12345; 03-26-24 at 07:51 PM.