chip.hedler

Am rehabbing an old Geminiani which had been repainted and upgraded back in the early 1970s but is probably a fair bit older. Images in album 25036284. Originally had steel cottered Stronglights. Frame had a Reynolds 531 double-butted label before it was repainted. Any way to identify it would be greatly appreciated!

machinist42

Welcome.

Very nice shots of the salient details.

At least one photograph of the entire bike (frame) would paint a fuller picture?













OP's Album.

chip.hedler

Added a shot of the frame to the album.

DanseMacabre

Pic assist

juvela

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thanks very much for sharing this interesting find

through time there were several producers for the quality models such as this

one recalled is Cizeron

shall look forward to reading the observations of the experts as to who may have been the actual manufacturer


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chip.hedler

Elsewhere in this forum there have been various references to MICMO, evidently a large manufacturer serving a number of different brands including both Gitane and Geminiani. I got the impression that at some point, there were GItane and Geminiani models with identical frames. Cizeron may have been oart of that equation--hope to find out! I think there's information elsewhere on the web about the Geminiani bike business that suggests that there wasn't a consistent algorithm for Geminiani frame numbers...

juvela

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yes, MICMO produced many of the low and mid level models

do not know how many of the first quality examples such as yours they were responsible for...

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T-Mar

The subject bicycle frame appears to a Geminiani Special manufactured by Gitane, circa 1961-1963. The Special was the top model and used Reynolds 531DB, Depending on the exact year, they are seen with either Simplex or Campagnolo dropouts. The fish mouth stay ends and stay cap style are typical of higher grade Gitane product of the era.

Another Special starting with a 421 serial number turned up with a 1962 registration sticker, so we know it's no newer than 1962. It may have sat in the shop for a while before being sold but is still likely within a year or two of 1962. The Cizeron connection is legitimate, however it was later, though at least as early as 1966.

Since the subject bicycle has a slightly higher serial number than the bicycle with the 1962 registration sticker, it is probaly no newer than 1963, though it could be year or two earlier, depending on how long the other bicycle sat in the shop. 1961-1963 should be in the ballpark.

chip.hedler

How do you determine these things?! How have you acquired lore about the stay endings for various machines, and about the different models offered by various manufacturers? Thank you so much!

Meanwhile, here's a report on the bike's issues and some progress on them. Ever since acquiring the bike I've been aware that the frame was not perfectly aligned. Riding no-hands required leaning my upper body somewhat. So after stripping off all the componentry, I set up some careful measurements to see how much the rear dropouts deviated from being perfectly centered on the midline of the main triangle. They were off about .6 cm. So I set up the kind of 2x4 lumber leverage described on sheldonbrown.com and found I could make controlled adjustments to the position of the dropouts. As you might expect, my first attempts were overly cautious, until finally I went a bit too far and had to correct. The front fork was much closer to symmetrical but not exact, so I went after those discrepancies with a homemade jig and some wooden clamps. I feel pretty good about the alignment now. When the bike is finally ready to ride again, I'm going to be intensely curious how much the tracking and handling will have improved.

I'd been warned not to have the old finish sandblasted off unless garnet abrasive grit could be used, because too much steel might be lost, thinning the tubes dangerously. So I've been using chemical stripper and scraping the paint off by hand. Tedious but definitely low-risk. There is some surface rust that will need to be dealt with but I think I'll consult with the powder coating service about the best approach to that. I'm also going to have the head tube refaced for the headset, which will not be authentic--the original headset was badly brinnelled so it was replaced with Velo Orange's French-threaded 1-inch set. The stack height is a good match for it so I'll be using a brand-new one of those when putting everything back together.

The clincher wheels I laced up around those Campagnolo low-flange hubs are showing a bit too much wear and tear--little dings in the edge of the rim from things like hidden-pot-hole-caused blowouts, etc. They still ride acceptably well, no throbbing brake effect or wobble to speak of, but this coming winter might be a good time to buy some new vintage-appropriate rims and spokes and build a new set. When I was in my prime, back in the 1970s, I could ride in the drops for an entire century but I might replace the 12-cm Cinelli stem with something a bit shorter. I also may fit some dual-pivot calipers for safer routine riding and swap them for the early 70s-era Campagnolo single-pivots if I ever want to do an Eroica-type event...

juvela

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certainly sounds like you are doing everything just right!

with regard to the cold setting -

the steel has a measure of springyness so that it is necessary to take things slightly past where you wish them to end when making adjustments; it tends to want to come back towards where it was

you only need to do this a very few times before you quickly gain a "feel" for it


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chip.hedler

That's pretty much how it felt. I would apply leverage enough to see the movement, and see it spring back partway when I released it. Steel is great! The experience I have when riding it close to my ability limit is gratifying regardless of what my actual speed over the road happens to be. There's a real parallel to sailing vintage boats: so what if they don't make 20 knots in a 10-knot breeze?

juvela

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in case it is of any interest replica transfers are readily available -

https://h-lloyd-cycles.myshopify.com...ge?q=geminiani

​​​​​​https://velocals.com/search.php?sear...ection=product

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dddd

This high-end Geminiani came through my basement shop some years ago, is was no newer than 1961 from what I remember and has a newer serial number than yours, shown below, beginning with 495...

T-Mar

Hang out on this forum for a couple of decades....